Saleem Abdulrasool
@compnerd
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PL/Compiler Engineer, xplat Swift, & Swift Core Team Member @ @browsercompany (ex @GoogleAI , @facebook , @Microsoft )
Joined March 2009
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We’re dedicated to sharing our work
@browsercompany
- so today we’re publishing our first post on building rich native experiences on Windows with Swift & open sourcing our swift-firebase repo
First up, interoperability! Windows APIs, COM, C++ and how they integrate with Swift🧵
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Bridging Swift to modern Windows: . You can call into the Windows Runtime from Swift - and it looks like you would expect!
#Windows10
#SwiftLang
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Why, yes, you can do hardware accelerated 3D graphics with Swift on Windows! A small proof-of-concept Direct3D demo application written entirely in Swift and HLSL.
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macOS, Linux, or Windows, may your packets flow freely! Announcing a swift-nio port for Windows!
#SwiftLang
#networking
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Reducing barriers to entry for Swift is important. Prebuilt docker images with complete toolchains, multiple SDKs, and pre-configured VSCode to help make it easier to get started at
#SwiftLang
#Docker
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Over the next few weeks we’ll be releasing more posts on learnings that have allowed us to build Arc in Swift on Windows incl.
- Our WinUI/RT bindings
- How we do UI testing on Windows
- and much more
We’ll be sharing on along the way - see you there!
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COM is the basis for so much Windows technology that it is bound to come up. demonstrates how to use COM from Swift and even how to implement a COM interface from Swift!
#SwiftLang
#Windows10
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We’ve been working hard to stabilize Swift’s C++ interop on Windows!
It hasn’t been easy but Swift’s seamless interoperability with C++ has allowed us to use dependencies like Firebase, Sentry, LaunchDarkly on non-Apple platforms
Full learnings here:
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Alongside this, today, we're making swift-firebase public, a library that uses C++ Interop to access Firebase from Swift on non-Apple platforms!
This is just the first of many as we bring more of our dependencies to Windows.
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Santa is running a bit ahead of schedule: swift-crypto now builds and passes all tests on Windows!
@tomerdoron
@Lukasaoz
#SwiftLang
#Windows
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The Swift core libraries have been moved to modern CMake with Swift support! Better builds for all, with support for cross-compilation and integration into existing projects. So glad that this work is done.
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@joshm
@browsercompany
Thank you
@joshm
and
@hursh
! So excited to be joining
@browsercompany
and working to build out this vision together!
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swift-package-manager on Windows?
#SureWhyNot
Swift Package Manager running on Windows for the first time!
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Finally have
@SwiftLang
ported to Windows to the point where Foundation builds and runs on Windows! Swift on Windows is now really becoming a possibility!
#Swift
#Windows
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@nicojrme
@joshm
I'm sure that
@alexandracoding
has fresher data than I do, but I'd say 80% or so. The business logic is shared, the UI code is platform specific, which also helps ensure the application feels native to the platform.
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@Dimillian
@hursh
@browsercompany
We are still pretty early, but I will leave you with this anecdote:
@alexandracoding
and I were pair programming and ended up deleting new code to replace with existing (shared) code, and had it just work! It’s a learning process 😅
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It's turtles all the way down. Setting up PR testing CI for the CI system to build Swift for Windows/Linux/Android. 🐢🐢🐢
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@slava_pestov
Linearity of history is not important until it is. The linearity helps when you are trying to bisect an issue. I found that it was significantly easier to bisect LLVM than Swift precisely due to the enforced linearity.
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@s1ddok
@SwiftLang
@JoannisOrlandos
At
@browsercompany
, the difficult issues have been around C++ Interop, Concurrency, and build. Those fixes have been flowing back upstream. One challenge would be testing/tracking release branches (e.g. 5.10) rather than just tracking main, and small projects are great for that!
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@steipete
@harlanhaskins
I suppose I should point out the Swift/Win32 repository: which has seen a bit of work since the initial post, though, I have been busy with a number of other items. Patches are welcome as always :)
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@s1ddok
@SwiftLang
@JoannisOrlandos
It does feel that things are stabilizing. Projects are likely to not run into issues unless they are experimenting with the very latest features, and even then, it is often possible to workaround them.
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@joseph_h_garvin
@JoannisOrlandos
@browsercompany
is using it for building their product on Windows. We will be sharing more with the community, and do hope that others will join us on this journey.
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@UINT_MIN
@signalapp
Congratulations
@UINT_MIN
! Hopefully they won’t keep you entirely away from the Swift world :)
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@vzverovich
@modocache
@stephentyrone
@jon_roelofs
Right, it does make more sense for larger projects. It’s just adding more work for the future IMO to not do it that way. But I still end up doing the same thing (single file until I get enough sketched out to split it up)
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@jfbastien
@pedantcoder
@stephentyrone
@mikeash
Well, since it’s return oriented programming, the answer is clearly carriage *return* - \r. Does this mean macOS classic was right or wrong? 🤔
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@migueldeicaza
@MarkVillacampa
@icanzilb
I’d love to have more help ;) I’ll also plug and here while here.
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@jon_roelofs
@Cor3ntin
@AaronBallman
Yeah,
@AaronBallman
is a pleasure to work with, both for code reviews and for discussions on how to best solve the problem.
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@s1ddok
@SwiftLang
@JoannisOrlandos
There are prebuilt toolchains available at . We are working to get an updated release out with the prebuilt macros support.
The quickest way to build yourself currently is to follow instructions at (working on merging upstream)
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@stephentyrone
IMO this problem impacts llvm/clang more than others. The MSVC opt builds tend to be better debuggable than gcc which tends to be slightly better than clang’s. Not sure of others like DS5 (armcc) or don’t remember icc/OpenWatcom/etc
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@johannesweiss
@pwscurriculum
@0xTim
@uraimo
@SwiftLang
@Apple
I’ve put in some work towards re-enabling the MSIs for the toolchain for Windows. These are now linked from the GitHub repository and available on Azure. Patches to improve the MSIs welcome :)
#swift
#windows
#azure
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@handleym99
That may be underestimating the importance of the underlying support that the UI actually depends on I believe. Sure, UI is what the user sees, the rest of the system is what the user depends on to “just work”.
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@NovallSwift
Working on OSS is way easier at Facebook - as long as the project is of an acceptable license, you can work on them with no heavyweight processes :)
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@slava_pestov
clang does have a decent static analyzer that does help catch these issues. The problem is that it’s an extra step which means that for most people it doesn’t exist :(
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@bxtuakyr
@browsercompany
The team is still working hard on building out Arc. We cannot wait to share it with everyone, but want to make sure that it is ready! You can join the waitlist at to ensure that you don't miss it.
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@JokerEph
@chandlerc1024
I’ve had the same experience as well. For anything beyond the most trivial thing, I find `repo` to be significantly better (and gerrit integration is extremely convenience and nice if private review/hosting is needed).
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@freak4pc
My approach would be to consider CMake + Ninja for the 5.3 release builds. Oh, and if you’re looking for examples for that: :)
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@nadavrot
Yes, there are checks, but most of them are due to portability or due to different language standards (by the developer). They will not do any checks by default - see the swift support in cmake. The default check is that the compiler can build something.
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@mohamedmansour
@bartekpacia
@timsneath
SwiftUI is not part of the Swift project, but rather an Apple specific framework. At
@browsercompany
we are using Swift projections for WinUI to build the UI. We will be sharing more about that soon and hopefully will answer your questions more in depth.
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@stroughtonsmith
@dgregor79
Yes, everything is meant to be used with the Microsoft SDK. DirectX included (see )
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@dancherp
@typesanitizer
@CodaFi_
@UINT_MIN
@DaveAbrahams
@jckarter
@dgregor79
@slava_pestov
@pathofshrines
@graydon_pub
in case you haven't encountered K before.
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@migueldeicaza
@jckarter
@helje5
@stephentyrone
@wreimers
Something which has significant benefits that are easily overlooked :)
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@dgregor79
@stroughtonsmith
I’ll let you in on a secret: the windows toolchain is configured to use lld by default with SPM. We don’t actually use any MSVC tools in the swift toolchain.
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@jckarter
@helje5
@stephentyrone
@wreimers
@convention
@com
Oh, nothing has changed in the 20 years. It is just building upon it. The current new thing is a new layer with COM, a few new APIs, and a ton of new stuff based on that. The interop with that is fully dependent on COM.
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@harlanhaskins
@steipete
That always seems to happen to me. Good to know I’m not alone in that!
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@jon_roelofs
@stephentyrone
@CodaFi_
You can always reminisce about the war and battle scars^W^W^W^W good times 😛
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@phausler
IIUC, the model between DirectX, Vulkan, and Metal is relatively similar, based on modelling modern graphics pipelines. It would be interesting to use `
@resultBuilder
` to allow mapping to the underlying implementation appropriately.
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@jckarter
@stephentyrone
@__phantomderp
Then there’s diffing binaries. Yes, I did just do that to figure out why a change broke swift_Concurrency 😩
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@stephentyrone
@vzverovich
@jon_roelofs
@modocache
That’s due to user of old cmake patterns (including in the swift repository) that need to be rooted. Use of target_sources should alleviate the conflicts due to internal changes.
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@krzyzanowskim
@migueldeicaza
@MarkVillacampa
@icanzilb
Help is welcome! If only it were like Hogwarts - help will always be given to those that ask.
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@dancherp
@typesanitizer
@CodaFi_
@UINT_MIN
@DaveAbrahams
@jckarter
@dgregor79
@slava_pestov
@pathofshrines
@graydon_pub
My unjustified, subjective opinion is that it is understood. K is an example of this - term rewriting defining semantics. Composable architecture is "newer"; one of the key insights in LLVM. Parsing/lexing is emphasized because of ease, because compilers are complex.
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@MalwareMinigun
There’s an interesting other side though: ninja’s clean is useful with CMake because it can avoid unnecessary reconfiguration.
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nbjoerg: you shouldn't hate JS with a passion; you should hate it with a flame thrower
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@inthehands
@millenomi
There has been some regression recently, but slowly clawing the way back. I would love to get your input on what is missing from the current Windows support.
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@jon_roelofs
@stephentyrone
@modocache
@vzverovich
I think it’s less about defaults being poor or not and more about explicit vs implicit and flexibility in structure.
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@freak4pc
@SwiftLang
SourceKit-LSP on Windows still needs more work. I am working on getting directory watching merged into for windows to enable some of the indexing. It’s not yet integrated into the toolchain. Patches and help welcome ;)
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zturner: If you're using posix, you're already not writing a portable application
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@biozal
@stroughtonsmith
WinRT and WinUI _are_ COM based under the hood. My intentions for Swift/Win32 was to use XAML islands to bridge WinUI into Swift/Win32. pushed enough pieces into place where this *can* be done in pure Swift (see )
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@chandlerc1024
@mdprice
I’ve always disliked the `git blame`. I used to use `git annotate` until I forced myself to use blame consistently as there were subtle differences in what the two tools could actually do (though that may have been a bug, and this was years ago).
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@helje5
@stephentyrone
@wreimers
@jckarter
@convention
Human generated at the moment, but should be possible to automate via ITypeComp - or better yet - the swift compiler reading the UUID and mapping that to the com interface declaration in the clang importer.
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@jon_roelofs
@vector_of_bool
As
@DougMerritt
already pointed out PD is complicated. Google disallowed (at least from memory, need to find the public version of the internal doc) it and a number of similar licenses due to legal ambiguity.
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@relativetoyou
@llvm
@relativetoyou
- the link is the recording of the talk. The work is already in the tree :)
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@davezarzycki
@pedantcoder
Well, Windows is more POSIX than Linux so ... (Yes, I've grown to generally dislike POSIX :-( ).
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@jfbastien
Not exactly what you’re asking for, but my favorite similar thing was the ObjC ARC optimization in LLVM. There were cases where the ARC contraction code would overflow the counts and fail by asserting.
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@helje5
@jckarter
@stephentyrone
@wreimers
@convention
@com
I’ll just point out the following tweet. Building upon existing technology is what our industry does - standing on the shoulders of giants that came before us.
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@handleym99
I meant for the API surface - `Windows.System.Profile.SystemIdentification.GetSystemIdForPublisher()`. This is after all bridging the entire System API surface - UI is but a tiny fragment off to the side.
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@jckarter
@helje5
@stephentyrone
@wreimers
@convention
@com
That was the reason that I started experimenting with Swift/COM ()- it opens a wide expanse of the system. The path from that to say WinUI is paved by Swift/WinMD ()
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@barrelshifter
Well, you’ve left out swift, the swift core libraries, and the swift tooling. Please resume fetching the sources 😛
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@dancherp
@typesanitizer
@CodaFi_
@UINT_MIN
@DaveAbrahams
@jckarter
@dgregor79
@slava_pestov
@pathofshrines
@graydon_pub
Of course that might also be because of
@RosuGrigore
exploring programing languages through term rewriting in his courses, which I was fortunate enough to take at UIUC.
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@thomaskrajacic
@0xTim
@thomaskrajacic
why not both? It’s a matter of perspective - you can take code written with Foundation on Linux and build for Windows or vice-versa.
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@freak4pc
@SwiftLang
Unicode support requires that you opt-into it. Running `chcp 65001` in cmd should enable Unicode.
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@stephentyrone
@vzverovich
@jon_roelofs
@modocache
@stephentyrone
I think that the difference is that with cmake you enumerate your sources so you can see what’s being included, and with s-p-m there’s implicit behavior. It’s the implicit vs. explicit debate.
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