Dr. Carmona wet on to postulate, bizarrely, that perhaps Covid's Origin resulted from "bats coming out of a mine that went to that outdoor food area [?] and then spread the disease there". But such a hypothesis again reflects an utter lack of "subject matter expertise" - given that such a "mine" would have had to occur in Yunnan Province - located >1000 miles from the INDOOR wet market in Wuhan (aka Huanan Seafood Market). Dr. Carmona apparently is regurgitating speculation by a colleague at the Univ. of AZ (ie, Dr. Micheal Worobey), who proposed via a podcast in 2022 a very similar but purely hypothetical scenario describing how bats that live near Wuhan "could have spread" the virus responsible for Covid to humans. However, multiple investigations and assessments since then have concluded that bats which carry in their gut the genetically closest relatives of SARS-CoV-2 (ie, the virus which causes Covid-19) are not known to occur - nor are they expected to occur - much closer to Wuhan than Yunnan Province (ie, a relatively short distance north of China's border with Laos). Plus, there is no evidence which supports the oft-repeated speculation that the wildlife trade in China had supplied live animals to Wuhan's wet market from sources located in southern China.

At no point in the interview did Dr. Camona reflect on the importance of understanding what actually caused the Covid-19 pandemic, and instead he downplayed this concern by arguing it was "less important" than "stopping the spread of the disease", and that the cause may not be knowable given that "The intelligence network look, the scientists look, the virologists and geneticists look, and there's still some uncertainty there."

You can add this table from Rasmussen's presentation at "Preparing for Next Pandemic Conf in Japan 2mo ago as being in support of your assessment - re: "how little wildlife" were sold live in HSM - see👇. Her research has determined that only 6 of 13 sp in that Table are susceptible to infection by the SARS2 virus (red text), while 2 other sp await testing (ie, Amur Hedgehog & Bamboo-rat) & thus their susceptibility is To Be Determined. Note that Dr. Rasmussen has explained that she tested for SARS2 susceptibility the cells of Ermine & Eurasian Badger as surrogates for Siberian Weasel & Asian Badger (which actually were sold live in Wuhan's wet markets, and share same Genus as their surrogate counterpart). It's important to understand that only 3 of the 6 wildlife sp she lists as "susceptible" to SARS2 infection were NOT observed - nor were these 3 sp reported sold by vendors - in HSM during the last 3mo of 2019 (ie, Mink, Civet & Ermine [surrogate for Siberian Weasel]). In addition, Dr. Rasmussen's Table failed to include 1 other wildlife sp that was sold live in HSM at end of 2019 (according to Tables 1 & S5 of Worobey et al '22) - ie, Chinese Hare. Unlike the Hedgehog & Bamboo-rat (notated as "TBD"), which await her testing to determine whether they are susceptible to SARS2, the Chinese Hare apparently was lumped together with 4 other wildlife species that somehow were deemed as "unlikely" candidates for intermediate host of SARS2. The other 4 sp included Wild Boar, Red & Pallas's Squirrels and 1 Flying-squirrel. However, these 4 sp were not present in HSM during the last 3mo of 2019, and they join with 4 other wildlife sp - ie, Nutria (aka Coypu), Civet, Mink & Siberian Weasel - as having NO live animals observed - NOR reported sold by vendors - in HSM during Oct, Nov & Dec of 2019 (according to Tables 1 & S5 of Worobey et al 2022). So, of the 10 mammalian wildlife species which were observed - and/or reported by vendors as being sold - in HSM during last 3mo of 2019, the Table👇from Dr. Rasmussen's presentation in Dec 2024 at a virology conference in Japan represents her belief that from 3 to 5 of these 10 sp could be - and that 5 to 7 sp likely are NOT - "potential intermediate hosts", based - in part - on evidence that her research discovered or affirmed about the "susceptibility" to infection by SARS-CoV-2 of some or all of these 10 species. That maximum total of 5 "could be" sp - sold live in HSM during the last 3 months of 2019, AND having known or suspected susceptibility to the SARS2 virus - include Raccoon-dog, Red Fox & Hog Badger, as well as 2 additional wildlife sp - ie, Hedgehog & Bamboo-rat (whose SARS2 susceptibility awaits further investigation). But Crits-Christoph et al 2024 - published last September, & which Dr. Rasmussen co-authored - clearly indicated that the fox and Hog Badger were essentially UNLIKELY to be intermediate host of SARS2 because they "were very rare or absent in SARS-CoV-2-positive samples and stalls." Dropping Red Fox & Hog Badger, which Crits-Christoph et al 2024 suggested were UNLIKELY to have been Intermediate Host, would leave Raccoon-dog as the top candidate for the wildlife species from which the SARS2 virus purportedly spilled-over into humans at HSM on 2 occasions during the last few months of 2019. Although Hedgehog & Bamboo-rat also could be considered as potential intermediate host species, despite having no actual evidence that they can be infected by this virus (let alone that they can effectively transmit SARS-CoV-2). It's noteworthy that NONE of the species in the Order of Mammals which includes Hedgehogs has any evidence of infection by SARS-CoV-2, nor any indication that they MIGHT BE susceptible to this virus. In fact, ACE2 modeling studies have indicated that at least 2 other species in the same and in a different Family of Hedgehog as the Amur Hedgehog - are HIGHLY UNLIKELY to be susceptible to SARS2 infection. Plus, the Amur Hedgehog, while sold live in HSM, does not occur in China south of northern Guangdong Province (ie, doesn't occur in Xuangxi or Yunnan Provinces), so it would seem to be a VERY UNLIKELY candidate for intermediate host given the reduced opportunity to have encountered any Horseshoe Bats carrying SARS-CoV-2 or a recent descendant of that virus. The closest genetic kin of SARS-CoV-2 are NOT KNOWN to occur north of Yunnan Province, and bat experts don't expect that SARS-CoV-2 or a close relative (ie, with >90% genetic similarity at whole genome; nucleotides) could have been spread by bats much farther north than Yunnan. And while the natural distribution of the Bamboo-rats that were sold live in HSM does extend across southern China into Yunnan, there's no documented evidence indicating that LIVE animals of this species were supplied to HSM from Yunnan, though the sale of Bamboo-rat "products" likely did occur for 1 vendor in HSM - which may have involved ONLY frozen carcasses, given that several were discovered and 'swabbed' in freezers inside the same stall in HSM used by that vendor (ie, discovered after this market was closed for Covid on New Year's Eve of 2019). Plus, more than a few million Bamboo-rat were raised annually in China; most on small, family-run wildlife farms that the Chinese gov helped to encourage & subsidize. These farms occur throughout much of China, including several that are documented to occur nearby or within 300 mi of Wuhan. Animal husbandry guidance produced by China's gov indicate that Bamboo-rat should be raised in cages that aren't placed atop the soil (ie, on a floor), inside a building or roofed structure, and that the cages must have adequate ventilation (eg, a fan) to keep temps from exceeding 90 degrees F. Thus, given that the species of Horseshoe Bat in China which are known to carry SARS2-related viruses lack evidence indicating they roost inside buildings (ie, these species are almost exclusively known to roost in caves, though some may occasionally - temporarily - roost in tree hollows), the likelihood seems exceedingly low that the cages, food &/or water used in raising Bamboo-rats on wildlife farms in Yunnan would have been contaminated by having urine or feces "rain down" upon them from roosting Horseshoe Bats carrying a recently evolved SARS-CoV-2 (or its close ancestor). And it's important to understand that vendors of live mammalian wildlife in wet markets of China almost always sell all of the animals that are brought to market each day BY THE END OF THAT DAY. FYI, the average number of Bamboo-rat that were sold in HSM and 3 other Wuhan wet markets combined was 43 PER MONTH. This means that avg sales at HSM likely totaled no more than about 10 Bamboo-rat per week - most likely supplied as a few animals provided multiple times per week (or upon request by vendor). At such a low level of daily/weekly sales, and even if a wildlife farmer received half of the sales price that a vendor at HSM got for selling a Bamboo-rat (ie, $9.50, since avg sales price was US$19 each), it seems improbable that it would have been cost-effective or worth the hassle to ship no more than about 10 live Bamboo-rat per week to HSM (via 1 trip per week, or much more likely 2 to 3 trips per week) from as far away as Yunnan. Consider that each trip required a 20-hour ONE WAY truck ride to HSM with multiple large cages containing these big rodents, & then have to lug those empty cages home again via another 20-hr truck ride - ALL FOR NO MORE THAN US$100 PER WEEK!

@angie_rasmussen @ydeigin @Rebecca21951651 @All_New_to_This @VaughnMises @R_H_Ebright @Florin_Uncovers @ban_epp_gofroc @Dissenting2020 @MJnanostretch @Muller_Lab @SolidEvidence @ciukzwil @DrStrangeLovett @tgof137 @StavaRune @VBruttel @FondueMean @tom335363 @BioSRP @stevenemassey @jbloom_lab @BallouxFrancois @Ayjchan @mattwridley @nizzaneela Would the methodology you are now using to "test susceptibility of species reported to be at the market (HSM?)" yield results comparable to those from Li et al 2023? Here's weblink to this paper: I asked you the same Q last week:

@StuartTurville @Nucleocapsoid @SolidEvidence @gadboit @simon_faire @BioSRP @DrStrangeLovett @Rebecca21951651 @mbw61567742 @Dissenting2020 @angie_rasmussen @VBruttel @stevenemassey @ban_epp_gofroc @jbloom_lab @BallouxFrancois @Ayjchan @mattwridley This paper describes study in which samples were collected from Covid patients, including objects they used or directly contaminated, to determine frequency of + samples & titer of live virus they had. Sputum & used facial tissues tested highest in both!

@DavidJuncker @Ayjchan Or did "political winds" leading up to Biden's request for the IC to assess differing hypotheses for Origin of Covid actually dissuade some agencies from expressing their preferred assessment and instead to issue one that was neutral or in "favor" of a natural zoonosis Origin?

@BreakingNewsFi2 @JMooreP3 @Ayjchan Or both?

Experimental infection of Red Fox was successful using massive inoculating dose of early Lineage A strain of SARS2 (ie, WA1; Porter et al 2022), & similarly Raccoon-dog was experimentally infected using early Lineage B w/D614G mutation (Freuling et al 2020). Raccoon-dog were able to weakly transmit their infection to a couple of naive animals placed next those which were infected (experimentally), whereas the experimental infection study involving Red Fox did not investigate whether they are capable of effectively transmitting their SARS2 infection. However, in both of these Canids, the ONLY tissue where SARS2 replicated was their nasal conchae (ie, no live virus or signs of infection was detected in the lungs of either sp when their successfully-infected animals were autopsied).

@gadboit @simon_faire @SolidEvidence @Nucleocapsoid @BioSRP @DrStrangeLovett @Rebecca21951651 @mbw61567742 @Dissenting2020 @angie_rasmussen @VBruttel @stevenemassey @ban_epp_gofroc @jbloom_lab @BallouxFrancois @Ayjchan @mattwridley It appears that SARS2 mainly infects epithelial cells which have ACE2; such cells line the small intestine of humans. However, the LARGE INTESTINE in humans is lined w/"goblet cells" - which don't have ACE2! Apparently, if any "live" virus gets into large intestine - they die!

@BillyBostickson @angie_rasmussen @Dissenting2020 @DrStrangeLovett @Rebecca21951651 @All_New_to_This @VaughnMises @R_H_Ebright @Florin_Uncovers @ban_epp_gofroc @MJnanostretch @Muller_Lab @SolidEvidence @ydeigin @ciukzwil @tgof137 @StavaRune @VBruttel @FondueMean @tom335363 @BioSRP @stevenemassey @jbloom_lab @BallouxFrancois @Ayjchan @mattwridley It's ref. #11 in Xiao et al '21: SFTS Bunyavirus is in same Family (Bunyavirus) & genus (Phlebovirus) as Heartland Virus. Both are transmitted via ticks & appeared in 2009. The outbreak in China was called Severe Fever w/ Thrombocytopenia Syndrome (SFTS).