a packet of NHS-issue bourbon biscuits 🦀🦀🦀
@nhsbourbon
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Ex-NHS doctor escaped overseas
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Weird how doctors have to "repay the nation" (lmao) for their education but law, economics, finance, physics grads etc don't, for some reason
@DrJCraneBatman
You can use the word Restoration until you are blue in the face.
All the British Public see is the word Greed.
I repeat, they are doctors in training and are in post to repay the nation/NHS for the time invested in them to obtain the basic level of competency they have achieved
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Sorry but I'm an actual doctor and if I see "Cons Acute Frailty" I'm going to assume you're a consultant geriatrician. You cannot just call yourself that without realising the implication. It's a genuine unironic crime
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You have managers with 4 GCSEs enforcing illegal rotas on you which destroy your health and relationships, you have people who could never get into medical school earning more than you to do the interesting parts of your job. If your blood isn't boiling yet idk what to tell you
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Unlike whoever wrote this tweet or any of the consultants featured in it, as a "junior" doctor I actually have experience working directly alongside PAs every day in a ward setting.
They increase my workload. They do not reduce it.
Physician associates support the wider clinical team, reduce workload pressure and enhance patient experience.
The NHS Long Term Workforce Plan sets out how to build the right staffing and skills mix for the future, including expanding roles like these.
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you could be doing a locum shift as an F1 doctor and getting paid half as much as the person you have to prescribe and order imaging for. Clown country
How is this acceptable
@BucksHealthcare
?
Doctors are NOT worth half a Physician Associate.
FY1s, this is how they value you. Look how they value your replacements.
STRIKE.
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No thanks, I think we'll compare with other professions requiring stellar academics, 6 years at university, and another 10 years of postgraduate training whilst making life or death decisions. The pay of other public sector workers is not the problem of doctors
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@DHSCgovuk
Nice try. How many hours a week, and at what times of day/night/weekend/public holiday do they have to work to reach those figures?
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You can tell who's a doctor and who's a PA in situations like this, because the PA will create a 500 word instagram story about it. When I had my "is there a doctor on the plane" as an F1 I just told my mum and a few mates
Imagine the faces of the cabin crew when searching the GMC register for the registration number this ‘medical professional’ gave.
Soon we won’t have that issue once they get GMC numbers - how fortunate.
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I know PAs are likely to struggle with science-related topics, but imagine getting yourself this confused over the concept of sampling
@itvnews
@staceyitv
19,000 responses?
There are around 377,000 doctors in the country.
You have based this headline on the views of 5% of all the doctors in the country!
Come on
@itvnews
@staceyitv
I expected better from you.
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That barista comparison has drawn more attention to the absolute state of junior doctor pay than anything so far
Steve, 53, from Wigan is not seeing that, sagely shaking his head and going "but where is the class consciousness" - he's wondering why doctors are paid so little
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At medical school it is absolutely drilled into you to always get informed consent, always identify yourself and your role to patients, never act beyond your competencies. 18 year olds being lectured about GMC etc.
Meanwhile PAs can just pretend to be a doctor consequence-free
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PAs (I think this is actually a PA student) know *so* little about the standard of behaviour enforced in medical school that they have the gall to come out with stuff like this. Recent small data set showed that PAs were involved in never events at 80 times the rate of doctors.
@manLikeTeaa
@itvpeston
@VictoriaAtkins
@ITV
so at this point you keep regurgitating the same bored points of “you didn’t fully do med school” “you’re killing patients” Because if this was really the case, the GMC list of doctors who get written off wouldn’t be growing everyday xx
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Looks like the
@NHSBartsHealth
comms team have had their first taste of what it's like to work weekends
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physician assistants make out as if medical school is something they could have entered if they just "wanted to". Clueless
If people want to be PAs instead of doctors, not because of the work, but because they can do the same or similar job without all the negatives, then of course it’s going to create the situation we’re in. You will never be able to limit scope well with these people.
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And we ask that you stop misleading the public (and other people who work in healthcare)
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@sallyanna25
@EmergMedDr
Imagine trying to tell an actual doctor what different doctor grades mean
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I'm still waiting for someone, anyone, to tell me the benefit of having a PA on the ward rather than another doctor
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@bbchealth
Sounds like strikes are expensive. Probably in the government's interests to resolve them by paying doctors properly
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where the fuck do they find these people willing to smile next to the man ruining everything about their professions?
do they hold them at gunpoint?
my brain is fried just trying to think about this
More Doctors.
More Nurses.
Better care for all.
Prime Minister
@RishiSunak
visited Addenbrooke's Hospital in Cambridge earlier today, meeting staff and welcoming the first NHS Long Term Workforce Plan in the NHS's 75 year history.
Made by the NHS, backed by government.
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Every single PA/ACP/non-medical consultant/alphabetti spaghetti practitioner is the result of two forces: 1) clown-tier workforce planning and 2) the insatiable desire to be a doctor in absolutely everyone who didn't/couldn't/"chose not to" go to medical school
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Now compare UK medicine graduates to their academic peers doing law/economics/CS at Oxbridge/London/RG (not at the University of Lincoln) and see if they still come out on top
"The highest-earning subjects across all UK universities are dentistry and medicine, with median graduate salaries of £42,000 and £35,000 respectively."
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The registered consultant multiprofessional advanced clinical healthcare practitioner (BSc (Hons)) will see you now
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No conversation to be had here. If you want to be on the medical consultants rota, you go to medical school and become a doctor like myself and my colleagues.
Anything else is dangerous, and if you believe otherwise you are Dunning-Kruger incarnate. Sorry.
Non- Medical Consultants on Medical Consultant Rotas Controversy!
@JackAChew
is behind the mic with his take on this storm
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Ngl considering it's something doctors can do, I'm genuinely surprised they call ALS "advanced life support". Feel like they'd have gone for "junior provisional life support, in training"
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"The academic route is a modern phenomenon over the last 50 years"
I wonder why that is? How does the medical knowledge and range of medical investigations/treatment we have now compare with that of half a century ago?
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What is the different job they do Dr Pollock?
Our PAs do a different job, not a watered down version of a doctors job. And it’s really helpful. Thank you PAs.
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"BBB or higher..."
"For those that "missed their chance the first time round" (whatever that means...) and are looking to graduate for free"
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this person thinks that doctors (6 years medical school, up to a decade of postgraduate training, extra degrees, life-or-death responsibility) are going to accept living in *literal* poverty in some cases just so they can "serve" patients
Doctors are leaving the NHS.
@danny_mercer
@thegradmedic
It is what it is and has been for quite some time…I struggle that none of your concern is for the patients you serve nor the colleagues that support you….why do you want to be a doctor? Why do you want to be in the NHS? Is it the only for the pay and conditions?
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"ask for a doctor" is predictably annoying all the right people
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4 likes hahahahaha
Great to chat to staff and patients in the A&E and the Same Day Emergency Care ward at St Mary’s Hospital, Paddington, this week.
We discussed the innovative work going on to improve care and prepare for winter pressures.
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"The medical school obsession"
@NHS_Teaspoon
@craniorectal
@DocAnonX
@EstherClift
@IOWNHS
@melisapasi
@HantsPolice
We can agree to differ on this, and have a different perspective on the ‘medical school’ obsession. Different world views & that’s ok. It’s not black and white & will inevitably become increasingly blurred over the coming decades. And that will cause great angst & much debate.
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The NHS workforce of the future: a blob of faceless, non-descript "practitioners", unleashed on the public after a 2-year apprenticeship
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@actor_joshua
@Dr_Done_
@ExplosiveEnema
@Parody_RCGP
The "wanted to be a doctor" bit is very telling
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@Dr_Done_
@TheCountessNHS
This is so funny when you consider how hard it is for doctors to get an ID badge that actually says doctor on it
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Desirable: an interest in rheumatology
We're hiring a Consultant in Rheumatology
Read the full job description and apply here:
Applications close Sunday 19 November 2023.
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Again, there's theme running through this of simply not knowing what you don't know. A first year physician assistant student telling fully qualified doctors that they're the dangerous ones. Insane
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I think some people are a bit upset that Doctors Vote/Reddit/literal food-based anon twitter accounts are having a more positive impact on doctors' working conditions than they ever will
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it's almost like posting weird prejudiced statements against an entire ethnicity doesn't go down too well once they reach anyone outside a community that's waist deep in pseudointellectual 2015 buzzfeed race-based rhetoric
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I am a doctor who works with PAs who have been in the workforce for years longer than I have. I regularly have to stop them making questionable management plans. When their knowledge is probed beyond 'protocol' they have an extremely superficial understanding of medicine
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What do they bring that a locally employed doctor doesn't?
@GeorgesUrology
@RCSnews
@IntuitiveSurg
Our Physician Associates are outstanding and an absolute asset to the dept . They are fully engaged ,caring,are permanent members of the team , well trained,learn skills quickly . The NHS would do well to embrace them as essential contributors to patient care .
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This is very, very funny
I beg your fucking pardon? How dare you imply our hard working HCAs are our "assistants". They are not there to be used as "donkey work".
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Funnily enough one downside of comparing doctors' salaries/hourly pay to those of traditionally white collar jobs is that most of these jobs in the UK only require a few hours of meaningful output per day; they're hilariously unproductive.
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@blvck_princesa
Because there is no reason for them to exist. Modifying postgraduate doctor training by reducing rotation frequency +/- employing more LED or SAS doctors completely eliminates anything PAs can bring to the workforce that doctors can't.
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?????????
@parthaskar
@RCPhysicians
@FPARCP
@NHSEmployers
@mmamas1973
@trishgreenhalgh
@UKGastroDr
@DrLKVaughan
@iDrSunny
@AntonEmmanuel2
@Rezaidi
@DrAsifQasim
@RowanHarwood
@NHSE_WTE
If doctors, ACPs, ENPs and PAs are on a rota, it’s a rota not a doctors’ rota. It’s 2024, not 1984.
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@mariamichle29
@drmattuk
@Xeon4f145d96s1
@potsy70
You seem to have a lot of knowledge about medical school for someone who's never been to medical school
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"can you join take team tonight please" vs "can you join ward cover team tonight please"
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Every day I grow more convinced that nothing in UK medicine is remotely worth it. Imagine having to put in all that effort and for what lol
Not only you have to be a medic, now you have to be a business person, athlete, volunteer, musician, actor, and run a business?!
I feel bad for the applicants 😩
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"I accidentally told a load of IMGs they'd get deported if they utilise their right to strike. Whoops"
@Xeon4f145d96s1
This is absolutely NOT our policy. We are one team at LGT and our colleagues are fully supported in their right to strike. This was a mistake made by an individual in a local whapsapp group and has been corrected.
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No one who's done an "accelerated tour of the human body" should be let anywhere near patients
Why do so many PAs believe that they study 'three years of medicine in 9 months'?
@FPARCP
@RCPhysicians
#physicianassistant
#physicianassociate
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@ellorakamineni
Undifferentiated patients (some of whom are actually sick), time-pressured, less access to investigations and immediate specialty support, so clinical reasoning needs to be excellent. One of my most stressful FY jobs. If there's anywhere you definitely DON'T want PAs, it's in GP.
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Alright guys, pack it in, Matthew here has decided you're paid enough because you're not literally on minimum wage as a fully qualified doctor
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UK doctors' regular reminder to either quit the profession or the country 😃
Medical degree
#apprenticeships
are coming to the UK next year. 🎓
Much detail is still missing—but one medical school shares its plans with The BMJ
@eabhaaa
reports
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btw, I pay my student loan back to the tune of whatever the law stipulates, but any notion of "serving the public" etc just because I have a medical degree can get in the bin. It's my life and I do with it whatever the fuck I please (including escaping to another country)
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@DrAsifOfficial
Do bankers and lawyers have to find second income streams on top of their full-time jobs?
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"Some of my generalist knowledge"... what generalist knowledge is that?
@DrEilidhMaria
@Dr_Done_
@emmamac2
Confessions of a newly qualified PA from the bin fire. Why are they holding the bleep? Why are they surgically closing patients unsupervised? Why do they admit not knowing A&P in post? Why do ‘all doctors’ go to them? 🤡
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This is quite literally illegal btw :)
Do with that what you will
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this is why I'm always baffled when people say they're gonna do GP either as a "fallback option" or because they don't know what else to do
I have personally done 65 consultations so far today. Brief break for first loo stop since 7.30am.
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"Research the pay"
It's fallen 12% in real terms since I started medical school alone
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@KateAndrs
Maybe if you had a real job you'd understand why we want to be paid properly for it
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@blvck_princesa
It was a perfectly reasonable answer. Tell me where you disagree with my thought process about reforming postgraduate training programmes, because you seem a bit stuck and you're resorting to calling things "obtuse" instead
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Fully qualified doctors - you're being reminded about "professionalism" from someone running an NHS hospital social media account. Stand up for yourselves.
@Doctors_Vote
@ELHT_CEO
Hi, we're aware of the form and looking to assess its content. Professional standards are important to us and expected from all our colleagues. We’re committed to continuing the work with our doctors, to ensure those levels are met.
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just read my car insurance policy document
#lawschool
It is crazy how much i have learnt over the last 10 months of being a PA student! Honestly loving the course and i am so glad i had the courage to change career
#nurse
#physicianassociatestudent
#medicalschool
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@Treasure_2222
@IDsunny
@Parody_RCGP
@Dr_Done_
@Xeon4f145d96s1
@Not_A_FT
@DrAsifQasim
Yo don't forget me
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Even worse because the actual Frailty consultants I've worked with were some of the most amazing doctors I've come across. Brilliant knowledge, communication skills, ability to properly rationalise investigations and treatment. You don't get to just call yourself one.
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@blvck_princesa
You asked me why I thought they shouldn't exist, I answered, and you don't like the answer.
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@SteveBarclay
All your doctors are leaving and they just announced a 5 day strike which will cancel hundreds of thousands of appointments, because you won't pay them properly
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@ExplosiveEnema
Saw a PA call someone once saying they were one of the "juniors" from the ward
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@blvck_princesa
This conversation is about the quality of medical training. Data suggests PAs commit astronomically more errors than doctors do. You can debate it all you want but the onus is on people pushing these roles to prove their safety. At present, it doesn't look like that's the case.
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@Dr_Done_
It's almost a given at this point that any physician assistant who misidentifies themselves or practices way beyond their capabilities has a documented history of "wanting to study medicine"
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daily reminder to disregard public opinion; a very large proportion of them are utterly braindead whether they're talking about healthcare or economics
@Ayan_Art_Doc
@nhsbourbon
@KateAndrs
7 in 10 patients think the GP service has got worse. Doctors have had a 25% pay rise over the last decade. GP’s average pay is £120k. Cry me a river.
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@NHS_HealthEdEng
Nothing unique to say, just adding to the voices telling you all to get fucked
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They always frame it like they made a choice, PA vs medicine. In reality the majority of PA students will be nowhere near the calibre academically and otherwise it takes to enter and complete medical school. But they don't know that because they didn't even try
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Things are especially bleak for doctors who aren't yet on a further training programme imo. Stuck between tying yourself to a training spot with a shit rota and yearly falling wages, vs the uncertainty of locuming (which may soon dry up anyway), vs just fucking off to Australia
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@Dr_Done_
I got 8% PA NE ratio, 0.1% doctor NE ratio.
That's an 80x (EIGHTY times) difference.
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@Keir_Starmer
350 competent anaesthetics trainees were denied a job this year because of a lack of training places. All you're going to do is increase that number
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@Dr_Done_
Yeah, selling it as some kind of doctor apprenticeship is disingenuous. You do not learn medicine from shadowing nurses. It's basically a medical degree (with the academic parts removed??) with a mandatory job on the side, and much lower entry requirements
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Rishi Sunak is genuinely the weirdest guy. Why am I having my profession and career decimated by someone by who converses like an AI chatbot
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WHAT ABOUT YOUR HYPOTHALAMIC OAF MATE?
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@St7Summary
It's insane. "How we always used to do it" does not automatically equal the correct way of doing it, especially now
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4/4 There's ample work and training opportunities for everyone while keeping patient safety at the heart of what we do. Ours is a success story that we encourage everyone to embrace and emulate.
@StGeorgesTrust
@ASiTofficial
@SWLNHS
@BAUSurology
@FPARCP
@NHSEngland
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the mad thing is, I was naive enough to think that the admin people who send out automated wellbeing emails every week and harass you for mandatory e-learning actually had working conditions similar to clinicians, and that was why they were so useless at their jobs
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If you're going to be a scab at least do it subtly, proudly announcing to twitter that you're not going to strike simply weakens the negotiating position of your colleagues before the strike's even started
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@JimBethell
@DrAsifQasim
What role does a PA perform that a doctor can't do? Really, really simple question
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@JaneEMCallaghan
Imagine wading into a discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with you and coming out with something this stupid
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@KayBurley
Minimising the tax burden is not the responsibility of doctors. Pay us properly or continue to lose us
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@Weetigger1
@thegradmedic
I don't care about being "one team", I just want to be paid an amount of money that is appropriate to the level of a) training and b) responsibility I have. This should not be controversial
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@emilysheffield
If we're so important, pay us a wage that isn't utterly insulting. Your choice.
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tbf if my job title was something as goofy as "physician associate" I wouldn't tell patients either
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Feel a bit sorry for PAs tbh. They contribute to the inevitable exodus of actual doctors from the UK, and then will be the ones left to firefight in an increasingly broken and dangerous healthcare system. I hope they're up to the challenge (and the litigation) because I'm not.
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Because everyone's so concerned about "public opinion", I wonder how the public would feel if they found out a large proportion of the people they think are 'doctors' in this country didn't actually go to medical school
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