Carl Thomas
@carlthomas
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Come for the hot takes, stay for the revelation. Pastor, husband, father, lover of Jesus, finger of God.
Boca Raton, FL
Joined March 2007
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Pinned Tweet
A good cheat code for heresy is, "Does this theology make anyone other than Jesus special?"
If so, chances are almost 100% its nonsense.
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@_rosiesantana
@AgendaFreeTV
Hey rosie, I don't want anything from you. Just praying you and your neighbors are ok.
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Looking for someone to do the layout for a booklet. Any recommendations please reach out.
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I have seen more than one Charismatic ministry implode and I am seeing the same pattern unfold at IHOPKC.
The orgs are governed by a system created to protect the leaders.
🧵 1
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Live tweeting the
#ihopkc
announcement as I listen to it.
4 minutes in, Bennet talks about ihop closing, prayer room staying open, and telling people not to text other to talk about it. Somehow staying silent is honoring. Who or what we don't know.
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@matttebbe
Remember when the narrative was God was against universal healthcare? As of healing was on a major part of the ministry of Jesus?
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If you are caught in the
#ihopkc
firestorm and your world seems like it is spinning and you can't find your footing, you will be fine in the next five years.
These things take time. Be nice to yourself.
If anyone wants to talk, I'm free.
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In the last 15 years there are many, many churches that opened prayer rooms but very few that could pull off 40 hours of prayer a week, let alone 24/7, because doing that without visions of grandeur or manipulation is darn near impossible.
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@Brcremer
I just can't fathom being at a place in life where I thought murder was not a terrible tragedy.
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They need pastors to step up, bear the reproach of the org, and care for the people.
But you will mostly see people arguing semantics while living in the cognitive dissonance regarding the collapse of the community they knew.
8/8
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@KellyClinger
Character tests are just a continuation of asking SA victims "what were you wearing?" It tells you those asking the questions believe abuse is not abuse if we don't value the victim.
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What is needed are bold people with clear vision who will definitively declare that the empire has fallen and people need to be taken care of. They need to organize healthy leaders to create safe places to deprogram and heal.
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Just finished this by
@esaumccaulley
. It's not too late to read it. It's a great overview of Lent and is filled with insight. It's an easy read and really encouraging.
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When the leaders become the problem, the laity spend time appealing to the system for justice, something it was not designed for.
Everyone has been trained to avoid any notion of going against the org so people stumble for months and years waiting for the org to self right.
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In the meantime, there are scores of wounded people flailing, waiting for someone to throw them a lifeline and make sense of it all. Sunk cost fallacy dominates the conversation.
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Bill Johnson, there is still time to display any level of integrity. You called IHOPKC "The most important ministry on the planet" many times.
Why so quiet now?
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@KyleJamesHoward
@ostrachan
I don't like conflict for conflict sake but I will always applaud people unmasking manipulation. Go be you!
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@jbouie
When the going gets tough you don't want a criminal lawyer, you want a criminal lawyer. Know what I'm saying?
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I only heard Mike Bickle preach like 3 times. In one of them he said he was praying to be martyred.
I thought, either that man has a tortured soul or he is totally deranged and has lost the plot.
Turns out the answer is yes.
#ihopkc
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@greg_boyd
I shuddered a little when I saw you use the word but I don't personally know you so I didn't read into it. The fact that you wrote these follow-up tweets is amazing.
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I think the church has met its quota of pastor entrepreneurs. She desperately lacks prophets and pastor theologians.
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Don't listen to prophetic words about the future from people who can't discern the prophetic lessons of the past.
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@TheRichardClark
One man's story about not getting caught up in the drama is another Man's story about a priest walking on the other side of the road.
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Eventually, some people realize that the org cannot save them or itself without being dismantled and rebuilt from the ground up. By this point the majority of stakeholders fall into two camps:
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I am really glad I went and completed my second Master's Degree but I am so glad it is over. I never got past the anxiety of having assignments due.
Today I am doing things I enjoy on my day off and it is so refreshing.
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@drewdyck
In my town, every aging congregation sells to developers. So happy for you and the church that will have their legacy continued.
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Jaded and scattered or are given to siege mentality. Bunker down, weather the storm for the good of the org.
Invariably people who could help people recover wait too long to act. They are still trying to avoid the stigma of going against the org that is hurting people.
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@osucowboytc
I would swear you were talking about an elder and his wife who I watched do the same thing.
Tried to destroy a church to protect their egos.
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@PastorBenMarsh
I ask people about this and they say things like, we can't afford to get married. It costs like $60. They live together and spent more on a cat tower.
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You see this in small missions bases in Africa, the gigantic SBC, and a myriad of ministries in between. I have seen it in church networks and small home churches.
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There is no such thing as a "prophetic history." There is no secret revelation. This is all old heresy and these leaders were old enough to know that.
The gnostic theology of the modern prophetic movement is beginning to unravel.
#ihopkc
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@matttebbe
Kind of like gun violence. More here than anywhere else but there's nothing we can do about it.
Every other industrialized nation has figured out universal health care but it's a complete enigma in the United States and therefore we pay more than anyone else.
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Pastor, it's not hypocritical to preach a word you need to hear. It's only hypocritical if you don't hear it.
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I was in high control churches that went fast and loose with the Scriptures. Stuff like "touch not God's anointed."
Mike Bickle is in no way shape or form comparable to King David. Wrong covenant. Wrong era. Wrong qualifications. Cultic, disastrous theology.
#ihopkc
@CarpenterConae
He will be back.
Please don’t read the Psalms about David because he committed adultery & murder.
I can’t wait to hear Mike’s teaching on John 13-17, Intimacy With God, and the End-times.
You must be super excited like me.
MIKE WILL BE BACK
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I get long winded. Let me be clear:
Im grieved for the sea of twenty somethings that moved to IHOPKC and are now lost in the void. Somebody please take care of them. Bickle knows what he needs to do. They don't.
Please care enough to pastor them.
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Amos Yong's CV is 65 pages long. What am I doing with my life?
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If you have not cried actual tears for what is happening in Kansas at
#ihopkc
specifically and the failure of the prophetic / charismatic church the last 5 years generally you need a serious heart check.
I am in deep mourning.
Christ have mercy on us.
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@DerwinLGray
Leonard Sweet told a story about his mom in his book Giving Blood, she would comment, "No blood on the altar today" when the preacher had not poured themself out for the message. That stuck with me.
@lensweet
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How churchy is my daughter? She is going to the Maverick City concert tonight and asked if we wanted to "sponsor" her merch purchases.
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Prophetic communities write all kinds of checks they never have to cash. The Debrah anointing, spirit of David, Barnabas anointing, what Paul called "great swelling words" are spoken, but people are not given authority like those words are real. Flattery is manipulation.
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If you rebel against the system, you not only lose your people & your community, you lose your calling. How can you be the next whatever without them since they are the only ones who believe that is a thing.
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If you were in a ministry that had you make a "sacred vow" other than marriage and salvation, there's a high probability you were in a cult.
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But the only people who believe you are the watchman on the wall, or the "next misty" 🤮🤮, or whatever are the same people requiring you to give up your life for their vision. They don't want to help you come into your calling. They hold your calling hostage.
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@TheCornDog
Anyone using the word woke as a pejorative to dismiss the value of another believer is not to be taken seriously.
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@Calebculver
Generation
Movement
Apostolic
Foreunner
Prophetic
Mandate
These are all terms you use when being part of the church of Jesus Christ is not enough, when you need to feel special or tell people you are special.
Only Jesus is special.
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My wife is in the family room fighting covid, but I hear her on the phone talking someone down off the ledge like she has done a thousand times before.
I tell you I married a good woman. A Kingdom woman.
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@JemarTisby
Shout-out to my seminary at
@seuniversity
. I have studied Cone, Jennings, womanist, Latin American liberation theology, and tons of academic egalitarian texts all in a traditional Pentecostal setting.
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The Church is the icon of the Trinity on earth and the visible image of the invisible Spirit.
D. C. Augustine
@DanielaCAugust
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In reading Bonhoeffer, I am struck how the manipulation of the masses through a neverending series of Evangelical boogeymen is nothing new and yet the church still seemingly has not learned to discern it.
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Much of the church has what I will call prophetic relativity. Signs and times are judged off of what we desire instead of God's history and nature. If we are going to be a prophetic people we need a biblical prophetic hermeneutic.
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@donnymac
@Snapdragon
@ASUS
Wait, you talk about the earbuds but not the operating system or the camera? Huh?
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@Joel7Richardson
Would be great if they brought someone who has been this way with integrity. An elder from Mars Hill that dealt with the abuse of Driscoll, elders who oversaw the Ravi Zacharias and Willow Creek scandals along with some other elders who have been this way before.
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The average semi-healthy local church can't play this game. If I stand on stage and prophecy a great calling on your life, I have to see you next Sunday and treat you like I believe what I said. I have to help you achieve that.
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It is good to be reminded that when we come to the Scriptures we are coming late to a conversation that has been going on for a very long time without us.
Chris Green
@cewgreen
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Says the org is about people. But nothing in this meeting has been pastoral in any way shape or form. Begins talking about Israel and prayer. But in no way is
#ihopkc
ministering to the people in the room.
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@laurchas22
We have stopped the "family" and "home" language. This isn't home and we aren't family. This is a community of Christ followers. You aren't coming to my bedside, I'm not paying for your college. Nobody sleeps here.
Healthy community is a more honest aspiration.
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You tell people that there is some secret special thing God is only going to do through your prayer room so God needs your people to be praying. You have to elevate your church above the Church for this to be reasonable.
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I think in the end you aren't going to see a mass exodus from
#ihopkc
. The majority will serve out there commitments and slowly move away without replacements.
24/7 will end and turn into a prayer tour coming to a city near you with the stars cashing in.
11/11
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@HeyMPT
I love the message but gotta laugh at using Latinx (a word not pronounceable in Spanish) to honor Latino culture.
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A rebrand doesn't protect
#ihopkc
. They need to close and restart to protect themselves.
Their heart is to have a "24/7 prayer sanctuary." Then plant a new org.
Still nothing about caring for the people in the room. My heart breaks for them.
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If you are the praying type, my mother is starting chemo tonight. Lord we lift up Maryanne Thomas.
Christ have mercy.
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@DoctorCamden
Why in the world should only one person have veto power? That makes absolutely no sense to me.
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One man's story about not getting caught up in the drama is another Man's story about a priest walking on the other side of the road.
Pet peeve: using “The SBC” when you mean a few awful leaders. “The SBC” millions of ordinary people in our churches who mostly want to fund missionaries, train pastors, send planters, and help you when a hurricane hits your town. People who don’t get caught up in the drama.
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I dream of a church that sees Pentecost as a way of life, not just a model for Sunday morning. A church that sees the river of God bringing justice and freedom.
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This Sunday is Easter. We are gonna have the same band. I'm gonna preach like I always do. The service will be the same.
I'm not with the church bait and switch on holidays.
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@jbouie
Laws that don't last as long as the tenure of the Senators that enacted them seems illogical. And all that would happen is every 5 years they would pass a resolution to continue the laws en mass.
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@DerwinLGray
Hang on for the ride.
In a word, my experience has been brutal. But much of the aggression has been couched in Christian nationalism. Few people are honest enough to directly say it is because of justice teachings.
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@JemarTisby
@GroveCtyCollege
They are playing to their base. The publicity you have given them will only increase their platform and influence. Probably get record enrollment next year. They know what they are doing.
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23 years today and I have a few thoughts about staying married.
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@taylorsschumann
Start acting like the cool parent. Ask about the friend group gossip and who's cute at school. All the kids start to leave almost immediately.
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Say what you want but there is something about gathering in a room of intercessors and yelling in tongues till you see Jesus is still on throne.
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Talking about a vision for a new church. But nothing in the vision is pastoral.
If I can summarize what has brought us tot his point, it would be one word, governance.
Says that they can't be a ministry of one guy leading everything cause it produces what has happened at ihopkc
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We need some bishops to call a meeting of the prophets, sit them down and tell the, "God is not talking to you about American politics."
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And the audio ends before questions are asked.
Lots of talk about how much work this will be for the leaders. Nothing about what is in place to help the people in the room.
Truly sorry for these folks.
#ihopkc
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Heard a teaching the other day on how the KJV was better than the original Greek bc God gave us chapters and verses in the KJV so the text would be split properly instead teachings that confuse by using a whole book.
I am not making this up.
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@brent_thomas
@JesterWootton
I met with a pastor when we were planting. I said we are gonna do things completely different. He said, no you aren't. You are gonna do what we have been doing for 2,000 years.
Never forgot that conversation. lol
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The Charismatic stream I am from produced a ton of ministry schools and no Bible colleges. Every legitimate revival produced Bible colleges. Every cult of personality produces ministry schools.
spoiler: Get an accredited Bible degree!
A comparison:
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"We are setup to go through what we are going through."
So the big problem is not that there is an org that did not value people, or winked at abuse, or was cultic, it was the structure of the ministry.
Wow.
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@JoashPThomas
The cross in the lynching tree is classic but I think dated. I recommend Willie James Jennings The Christian imagination.
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There was a time that I defended a theology that every death from sickness was a result of failed prayers. I believed that the takeaway was that I needed to go back to the prayer closet for more power.
I now find that theology abusive. Sickness and death is not my failure. 🧵1
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Says there is distrust. Talks nothing about why.
Begins talking about
#ihopkc
going negative $500k for six months. Talks about managing the checkbook.
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Theologians must spend time with people saved less than a year. Communicated the essentials of the Gospel to these folks. Stay rooted in communicating the foundational work of the Gospel.
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I am immune to election cycle exegetical fallacies. I have sat through countless offerings at charismatic conferences. Nothing phases me anymore.
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@thatchrischase
I haven't. But I might reply, "Exactly and it makes no sense to pay me to shepherd the flock and not follow my leadership."
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