Nirvaan Ved
@br_llm_lock
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On top of latest AI stuff, Product Mgr and curious about Economics, Genetics, Policy, History, Geopolitics
Joined June 2023
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IVC-IE papers:
Heggarty 2023 and Yang 2024 for linguistics, IVC-IE link:
Maier 2023 for genetics, West-East IVC-Iran-farmer-IE link:
Gavashelishvili 2023 for PIE homeland location:
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@BBCNews
So a Indian is representing an Indian colony. Great. Why are white nationalists triggered? Indians run UK anyway. Biggest private sector employer, biggest automaker, richest UK family, head of UK, etc
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@dr_duchesne
@RiseofBurnol
@Leonarda_Jonie
Exact opposite for me. Whites have always been way more favourable for me than Indians. In many interview panels, that one Indian guy in panel of 7 whites has rejected me. This is a consistent behavior from Indians to other Indians.
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@P00ptimist
@stats_feed
Nothing odd, Iranians are easily one of the smartest people I have ever yet.
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@subhash_kak
Your dates of Mughals are incorrect. Babur had small section of Northwest South Asia for between 1526-1530. Humayun lost it and then Akbar recovered it from 1550s. Mughals were under Marathas from 1707, taxes were levied from 1719. 1556-1707 is actual Mughal rule, south from 1687
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@debarghya_das
The number for Indians is outdated. $173k is the latest number for median household income from 2022 data. The is almost 3 times the income for White Americans. There are 5M Indians in US.
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@Noahpinion
It is getting there. In terms of standard of living, it has GDP PPP per capita of $10k, currently 1/5th of Southern Europe.
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@ScythianBro
Cry harder, Indians are the original Aryans alongside Iranians since at least 7kya, no amount of lies is going to change that. Steppe was Iranized by Iran_N peoples:
IVC-IE papers:
Heggarty 2023 and Yang 2024 for linguistics, IVC-IE link:
Maier 2023 for genetics, West-East IVC-Iran-farmer-IE link:
Gavashelishvili 2023 for PIE homeland location:
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@wesley_mcjohn
@cremieuxrecueil
No, Indians have less household people than whites. Most Indians in US work in STEM or other high paying jobs and many on immigrant visas. They can’t bring their families here
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@MiroCyo
This is such a stupid thread and fails on genetics 101. Middle Easterners and Italians share common ancestry from a parent source from Anatolian, Levantine and Iranian farmers and additional minor Armenia_MLBA related Steppe, so chromosomes shows that overlap. Inferiority stinks
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@Devasakha
Probably because of the size, Rakhigarhi being the largest and now also one of the oldest, makes Mehrgarh look less important given already to the east and in heart of India you have much more developed settlement. The core of the genesis lies much more east rather than west.
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@cremieuxrecueil
The number for Indians is outdated. $173k is the latest number for median household income from 2022 data. The is almost 3 times the income for White Americans. There are 5M Indians in US.
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@joysamcyborg
@TheBabylonBee
Friendly reminder to whites that Indians in US has $173k median family income and that is twice whites. There are 5M Indians in US making 1.5% of population but paying 10% of US income tax, they are by far the richest ethnicity in the US. Entrepreneurs, Doctors, Lawyers, no match
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@bazdoeshisthing
@esaagar
No, this is a dumb take. Most people coming to US are not Brahmins. Caste system doesn’t work like top caste low caste. Middle castes make 70% of the population, and people migrating to US are proportional to most of those caste populations. You don’t know much about India
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@NirajRai3
What’s interesting here is that, they receive IVC ancestry after 300 BC in an individual from 100 AD . If Steppe ancestry was widespread by 300 BC in India, then how come this Tibetan individual does not have it? Btw,Paper incorrectly assumes Gonur_BA2 != IVC
@yajnadevam
@Ugra___
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@Hamalisk
@Noahpinion
GDP PPP per capita is the relevant metric here, that’s why I quoted that.
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@NirajRai3
Whats the point of repeating ANI/ASI when we know proper ANI never existed. IVC, Steppe, AASI maybe the right references. ANI/ASI are outdated concepts
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@Chief_Xholtyl
@Kdenkss
India had higher GDP than China throughout history except between 1500-1650 and post-1720, and very likely by 2050 India would have surpassed China again. These are GDP PPP numbers from Maddison.
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@yajnadevam
@tishasaroyan
What this lady doesn’t understand is that, just showing Steppe ancestry is not enough, the arrival time of Steppe ancestry needs to be resolved which is unresolved today. Latest info shows 500 BC arrival (paper to be out soon), which falsifies Steppe theory. Swat is not relevant
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@male1965045
@Ofer_binshtok
Lol, the entire Sikh empire was formed because of vacuum created in Punjab after third battle of Panipat between Afghans and Marathas. If anything, Marathas recovered quickly after that stupid battle. Marathas ended Mughal rule and Vijayanagar was largely responsible for Sultanat
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@ETHI94
@joysamcyborg
@TheBabylonBee
They doing it if you were following news,India is the fastest growing major economy for years now. Given its performance post 1991-liberalization it is expected to grow 10 times its current size in 20 yrs. Most US tech companies' largest market is India, your 401k depends on that
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@okaythenme
Traditionally, Indonesia, Malaysia, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Burma, Brunei and parts of Vietnam and Philippines would be part of Vedic Asia and had significant Indian influence relative to Chinese
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@DivaJain2
You are giving bad advice here. Eat vegetarian, no issues with that, but Indian diet is high carbs, high saturated fat and low protein. Bad diet for healthy life. I had to change my Indian diet to improve my cholesterol profile. No wonder, many young Indians have heart problems
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@ShashiKusuma
@NirajRai3
@razibkhan
Razib Khan is a fraud. Most South Asian Americans strongly peddle Steppe theory because it is a combination of their inferiority complex and white bootlicking. They have made into thinking they are subservient to whites. We don’t need these colonial sepoys telling us our origin.
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@yajnadevam
@cremieuxrecueil
Thats just 500k Jews who are orthodox, Indians have $173k median family income at 5M people
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@JoeAgneya
This is an incredibly well written piece:
It does have backing from Alexander Gavashelishvili‘s latest paper where he backs Alborz region as the homeland:
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@yajnadevam
@cremieuxrecueil
If you adjust the IQ for income levels then Indians IQ is 112 whereas White American is 100. You can’t look at IQ in vacuum, a lot of that depends on socioeconomic factors. Indians in India will catch up to this IQ level in 2-3 decades
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@yajnadevam
this whole dumb Sintashta nomads doing language turnover is one of the systematic colonisation program from these continental Europeans. Anyone who has studied it carefully knows this is baloney. IVC/OCP duality exists in most civilisation including Athens/Sparta or LinearB/Homer
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@RyanH1971
@eyeslasho
I dont think people realize how wealthy Asians are. Indians (if they can be called Asians) alone contribute around 10% of US income tax at 1.5% population (was 6% at 1% pop). US punishes Asian intelligence disproportionately. Tech immigrants are Asians contributing 35% innovation
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@yajnadevam
@tishasaroyan
Yes, with samples between 2000 BC-500 AD, with Kashmir, PGW, Sinauli, South India Megalithic and also 10k samples on R1a origin (not Z93, earliest R1a), 6000BC too. This decisively proves Steppe arrived in India ~500 BC, too late as Brahmi Prakrit is attested in SriLanka ~600 BC.
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@yajnadevam
@tishasaroyan
No, but I have admixture plot of Kashmir 1200 BC and 200 AD samples, and presentation screenshot of Sinauli samples PCA. Both makes it very clear that there is no Steppe ancestry before 1000BC, but around 17% in 200AD Kashmir sample, so more Steppe even later than that in Kashmir
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@VisionaryVoid
@historyinmemes
Extremely cocky and outdated Brits. It is so funny that they still think they are even relevant, just American lapdogs. Lisa is a humble American and could probably buy Royal family and their estate 5 times over. Don’t underestimate Americans
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@RobertKYarbro
@esaagar
Lmao, they literally invented soap and thought non-bath taking Europeans what bathing even means. Learn some history idiot
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@JacobAShell
@yajnadevam
@Devasakha
@Ugra___
@finalpill
the first horseback riders are actually found in Pre-Yamnaya Remontnoye samples area. These are Caucasus ancestry heavy samples with close to half ancestry from Maikop-like population and rest from BP2 group (CHG+EHG+Central Asian)
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@GaryMarcus
@yudapearl
@ylecun
Gary, you are not even qualified to debate with LeCun. Stick to Psychology and Neuroscience. You are not cut for AGI related discussions.
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This “stepping over Mykop” is an important part of Anthony strategy. Mykop has 42% Iranian farmer ancestry that Aknashen lacks, if Mykop is the origin of IE in Steppes (Reinhold supports it) then it very likely comes from Iranian farmers — something Anthony would hate to admit.
Not the only example... 1st img also speculates on Armenia_N -->Yamnaya
2nd img: MAYKOP is v. similar to Akneshen, & a much more proximate/obvious source of admix w/steppe ppl, if that's how Yamna formed
So, why keep stepping over Maykop, in favor of link w/ Armenia/Azerbaijan?
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@TrueIndology
There is something genuinely wrong with Iranian (including Persian) and Turanian ethnicities, they are so cringe with about whiteness and so desperate to be included as Europeans. Almost reminds of some Jats and Sikhs, like bruh grow some self respect and probably some spine too.
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@okaythenme
Turkic Asia should be combined with Iranic Asia. Those cultures are as inseparable as Vedic and Dravidian cultures. Turks got most of their culture and civilization from Iranic Scythians and later from Persians. Even Arabs got most their culture from Persians (so did Islam)
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@TheWatchervol2
@zhao_dashuai
No, Indus Valley was Indo-Aryan speaking concluded from recent papers, Heggarty et al 2023 and Yang et al 2024.
. India has atleast 7000 years of IVC continuity on language, genetics (85-90%) and religion as per latest research.
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@NirajRai3
@vikramghanekar
Also, you are quoting 2019 research, which is outdated. Most papers in last couple of years does not support Steppe ancestry bringing Indo-Aryan languages. They say it came from Sarazm_En like ancestry in Indus Valley from Iranian farmers 7000 years ago.
IVC-IE papers:
Heggarty 2023 and Yang 2024 for linguistics, IVC-IE link:
Maier 2023 for genetics, West-East IVC-Iran-farmer-IE link:
Gavashelishvili 2023 for PIE homeland location:
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@NamitArora0
@NeilHD108
@tishasaroyan
@thehindumapper
@Rtam86418021
@aryaismm
@NirajRai3
@vikramghanekar
@Ugra___
@Nash_Siddiqui
@goyals_00
@arya_amsha
@yajnadevam
@finalpill
Forget about that, Explain horse riding in Chitrakoot paintings where OCP weapons are attested. Or did you forget to read about it.
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@Sagnamadr
“Proven”? Nope. It is a good theory. But Iranian farmer origin theory is much stronger. CLV cline (proto-Indo-Anatolian) gets it’s language from Mykop culture. Both Mykop and Indus Valley gets their languages from Iranian farmers with 42% and 75% ancestry:
Iranian farmer = PIE. IVC is 75% Iranian farmer and Mykop is 42%. Mykop-like population gave IE languages to Steppes (possibly Remontnoye?). They completely transformed Steppes with Horse and Wagon innovations, in addition to Agriculture (Haak et al. 2024)
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@esaagar
This is an outdated data, median family income of Indian Americans was $173k in 2022, almost twice that of whites
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@powerfultakes
For per capita and standard of living, GDP PPP per capita is much more relevant metric than GDP nominal per capita. For international economic influence and especially for influential trading nations, GDP nominal is more relevant metric than GDP PPP.
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@subhash_kak
Mughal rule post-Akbar capturing lands between 1556-1600 was still around 50% of South Asia (2-2.5M sq km) primarily North extending till Godavari. Aurangzeb took it to South only after 1687, most India under Mughals just for 20 years 1687-1707. By comparison Maurya were 5M sq km
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@AviiOnX
@CastePatroller
@TheJackForge
The Aryan Ancestry is either from Northern Iran or NW South Asia, we don’t know the exact location.
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@Ugra___
@yajnadevam
@Devasakha
Check out how close IVC's primary ancestry Sarazm_En (Kerdenhoff et al. 2024) is to so-called "Proto-Indo-Anatolian" CLV cline (Lazaridis et al. 2024). They are as close as Southern European (Italian/Spanish) and Northern European (Baltic/Russian).
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@yajnadevam
If you look at OCP weapon inventory, they look like quite deadly people compared to Sintashta. They also have Chariots, and we have horse riding evidence of OCP people from Chitrakoot paintings. OCP are found from Bactria to Karnataka, to Oman. OCP Vajra artefact is Indra’s Vajra
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@yajnadevam
The above plot is for modern Greeks and is irrelevant to Mycenaean Greece, who had super low Steppe. Modern Greeks gets Steppe ancestry from Slavic source post-Roman collapse, that has nothing to do with language change. But somehow later high Steppe didn’t change language. Lol
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@DesiKing_
I mean, social media is in decline, so the best way to tackle this would be to have Indian social media companies for Indians. So western companies would realize they are under threat of losing Indian users to Indian companies. Right now, western companies want thriving business
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@JoanFrancescOl1
Here are 70% AASI Paniya tribal women. Do you research before making dmb stuff
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....there was no entry of a new set of people between 4500 and 800 BC, much less of Aryan invaders!. This is consistent with Iranian farmer (Sarazm_En) like ancestry admixture with AASI people to form the IVC population around 4560 BC (mean date) as per Narasimhan et al 2019....2
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@yajnadevam
“No one would be happier than me to discern a Dravidian solution to the Indus Valley script. But all of these results pointed ineluctably in the direction of an Indo-Aryan solution—an emotionally charged conclusion for a published Dravidian linguist to accept.” - Steve Bonta
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@vishnugupta_108
IIIT-H CS/ECE is doing better than most IITs for almost a decade now. Not a new thing
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@Ugra___
@Devasakha
The biggest lie here is that they consider all R1a-z93 under one umbrella. If you just consider the majority Indian variant local to India, then you can see it is not male mediated at all.
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@yajnadevam
@cremieuxrecueil
The number you have provided is for Orthodox Jews, not all Jews. For all Jews, it is much lower than Indians
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@arun_einstein
@elonmusk
@TheRabbitHole84
Even where Indians didn't migrate based on high-skilled talent .i.e., Indentured servants, low wage migrants and colonial era laborers, etc, they are still the top 3 richest ethnicity. So your point doesn't stand.
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Early Indo-Iranian influence on Sumerian religion: “Milking the udder of heaven: A note on Mesopotamian and Indo-Iranian religious imagery” by Gordon Whittaker:
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@Ugra___
…..calling those chariots as war chariots is also laughable. Littauer and Crouwel firmly rejected Chariot label for Sintashta. But Anthony’s fictional works are taken as gospels
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@Kdenkss
@cmkourtu
If we are talking about per capita then GDP PPP per capita is more relevant metric than GDP nominal per capita. India doesn’t even need to match Japan’s, 60% of it would give Indians high quality of life in a high growth economy. Currently India is at $10k and Japan at $50k.
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@GemsOfINDOLOGY
It has to be Bhirrana and Early Rakhigarhi. Sumerian is much later like 5000 BC is their inception time.
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@BridgeTwnSmith
@Noahpinion
I don’t think westerners get it. If there is one thing that is clear from America’s experience of India’s post-Independence leadership is that, India always wants to be its own camp. It will never accept being second fiddle in anyone’s camp and it is big enough to command it.
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@isawsukul
@aaraynsh
You handled it very well, Kudos to you. People in Indian startup environment should learn from this. Losing cool is a sign of weak leadership, and it spoils the company environment with compounding effect over time. It should be shut down right when you see it.
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@OsoDanes
@yajnadevam
You keep cooking up BS, under illusion that “loan words gymnastics” is somehow scientific ways of determining language changeover. That pseudoscience has basically messed up this field worse than Parpola’s fantasies. Your Steppe ancestry bias is showing, alongside Nordic bias.
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@OrthoMagnus97
@empireenjoyer10
dont think anyone in India is interested in being associated with Whites. We have nothing in common except Indo-European languages that removed by 8000 yrs from Iran_N/CHG ancestry with 15-20% overlap. We have our own civilization and history that we don’t want to share w/ anyone
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@yajnadevam
Sri Lanka’s protohistoric Iron Age is marked by the presence of this Indian‐derived "black and red ware" dated 900 BC from the early habitation levels of Anuradhapura in north-central Sri Lanka. Same settlement which would later write in Brahmi Prakrit between 600 - 500 BC.
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@NirajRai3
@vikramghanekar
@vikramghanekar
you are confusing Steppe with Aryan migration. We don’t know when male mediated Steppe ancestry arrived in India, Swat is too small and female mediated. UP Brahmin Steppe admixture is ~500 BC. So Aryans came from Sarazm_En ancestry in IVC
IVC-IE papers:
Heggarty 2023 and Yang 2024 for linguistics, IVC-IE link:
Maier 2023 for genetics, West-East IVC-Iran-farmer-IE link:
Gavashelishvili 2023 for PIE homeland location:
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@Ugra___
Not only that, Hasanlu Mitanni Bowl sites have around 25% IVC and also BMAC ancestry. It has Swat haplogroup native to Indian subcontinent. It has no Sintashta ancestry, but Catacomb related Armenia Steppe ancestry which is widespread in Iraq and Levant. No language change there.
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@bazdoeshisthing
@esaagar
He said it is funny, but also enlightening people that Indian Americans are by far the richest ethnicity in the US. This data is even outdated, latest number is $173k, no one even comes close to us
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@naomi2009
Call it off. It won’t make much difference to India. And if most of the West also does it, do it, we might take some hit (1-1.5% growth) in Short term, but West will lose India and access to its consumer market permanently. Today it is 3rd largest and on track to be 2nd in 10yrs.
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@Paul_America
@debarghya_das
No, back in 2014 Indians were at $104k vs Jews $98k. In 2022 Indians had median family income of $173k at 5M people. However, Orthodox jews who are 0.5M are at $188k but they are 10% of Indian population in US. Overall Jews are much less compared to Orthodox Jews
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@aryaismm
@Devasakha
@harissarvottam
Also, they perfectly remembered Indo European mythology but somehow forgot their migration from Steppes within 100 years. And, they also forgot the name of their main god Indra, which they took from BMAC. Even Rahul Gandhi has more credibility than these academics
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@Tom_Rowsell
@TrueIndology
Imperial era Romans were closer to low Steppe Southern Italians/Sicilians and low Steppe Greeks. Nothing to do with Northern European Barbarians. They were much closer to other Mediterranean peoples than to Baltics.
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@aryaismm
Some of these dimwits really wants to inherit Indian civilisation. There is only one Indians!
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@joeyoun31408420
It is super weak, and we don’t have evidence of actual arrival of Steppe ancestry in India. Swat is female mediated. So we need more samples. If there is no evidence then it didn’t happen. If you are claiming it then provide evidence else it is fantasy
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@OsoDanes
@yajnadevam
I have never supported South Asian PIE homeland, so don’t know what that comment was for. Homeland is very likely in Alborz or Zagros mountains with Iran_N ancestry as the “tracer dye”. Until we have more genetic samples from Iran_N and Caucuses, this is an unsolved problem……
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@cremieuxrecueil
@AmanitaVirosa2
There is something about lactose tolerance. Me or my family does not have lactose tolerance gene, but we can perfectly digest milk without any issues. I think it has to do with gut microbiome that helps with lactose digestion
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OCP has closest match with RigVedic people being in East of Punjab with post-RigVedic eastward migration. OCP were highly militarised and weapon comparison wise more lethal than Sintasta & with Chariot (likely horse driven with OCP Horse riding evidence from Chitrakoot paintings)
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@uberboyo
Irish have upto 50% Yamnaya and rest European farmer ancestry, same proportion of Yamnaya as Scandinavians, Northern Slavs, Most Germans, and many other groups Finno-Ugrics. Not a separate race. As a race, they are same as other Europeans except Sardinian, Sicilian, Saami, etc.
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IVC and OCP are sister civilisations, both being Indo-Aryan, however IVC being more Urbanised. This duality is similar to Athens and Sparta.
@sialmirzagoraya
OCP is quintessentially Indo-Aryan, and it does not have Steppe ancestry. The people who brought IE languages to Sri-Lanka came from Black-and-Red ware Harappan earthenware 900 BC settlement, who would then write in Brahmi Prakrit around 600 BC.
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@theanglishtimes
Incorrect map for Indo-European, homeland is South of the Caucasus and Northwestern Iran Haji-Firuz area. Shomu-Shulaveri-Aknashen-Mykop is potentially source of IE in Steppes, and from there to Europe, and Indo-Iranian and Anatolian comes directly from South of the Caucasus.
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@Devasakha
She is extremely dumb for someone with bachelors degree let alone PhD. This basically tells you that bar in academia is low. And it is people like these that subsequently feed the sad state of Indology. Indians have been deprived of their own history and origins for 3 centuries.
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@arun_einstein
@elonmusk
@TheRabbitHole84
No, they didn't. They were manual laborers and indentured servants working in farms. wtf are you on?
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@BellBeakerBloke
@iosif_lazaridis
Thats not how that works. These are highly mixed populations where every cline has both Northern and Southern ancestry, Y-hg can expand from any source. By your logic, Semitic people carry primarily J1 Iran_N Y-Hg but speak Levant_N language. Y-hg is not language.
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Key element of Maier 2023 is Anatolian Farmer(ANF) ancestry in IVC people, that could have brought Indo-European (IE) languages from West to East post-6000 BC through Iranian Farmers (75% in IVC). Presence of ANF in IVC is confirmed by Kerdoncuff-Stov 2024
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@NeilHD108
@NirajRai3
@vikramghanekar
@tishasaroyan
Lmao, if she is all that then I am a renowned NASA scientist. Don’t take advice from propagandist clowns. Only peer reviewed research papers matter, nothing else. All recent 2023-2024 papers does not support Steppe Aryan theory
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Narsimahan et al. 2019, actually makes it very clear that the oldest Steppe ancestry admixture happened in modern Indian cline (in Kalash) in 1st millenium BC -- this is too late to bring Indo-Aryan langauges. Punjab is Vedic heartland, so Steppe ancestry reached there much later
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