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building based rollups at @spire_labs ~ eliminate the middleman
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1/n
A summary of the recent MEV internalization discussion.
How much MEV will be captured by apps vs chains?
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Absolutely not. Ethereum should not lean into DA as a primary focus.
Eliminate the middleman: focus on CR, decentralization, and credible neutrality.
ethereum as an execution layer is fading away, or at the very least getting beat by solana
ethereum should lean into DA. if we look at charts/metrics that compare DAs, ethereum looks much nicer
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Open sourcing a
@timedotfun
sniper bot I wrote a few weeks ago. Uses alloy from
@paradigm
h/t
@gakonst
and works well.
Was some fun dark forest stuff involved here.
Link below
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the chains you actually need to pay attention to:
uniswap
aave
maker
curve
compound
pendle
spark
appchain ftw
the chains you need to pay attention to:
story
fluent
reya
hyperliquid
fuel
movement
megaETH
aztec
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Two of the highest quality infra projects out there atm:
@SorellaLabs
@0xFastLane
Give em a follow for high quality insights, research and meaningful contributions to MEV discussions.
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🕶️Based Rollup AMA🕶️
Ask, and you shall be answered.
Stupid questions welcome.
No limit on # of Qs per person.
Topics:
- based sequencing
- based preconfs
-
@Spire_Labs
based appchains
- L1 composability
- anything I've tweeted about recently 😉
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Say it with me:
based rollups
1/ Introducing RISE, the Gigagas Layer 2!
We’re excited to announce our $3.2M seed round! The round is led by
@FinalityCap
and joined by
@OrangeDAOxyz
@DigiAssetFund
@ether_fi
@PolygonVentures
@MH_Ventures
and
@publicworksfm
as well as several notable angel investors.
This is
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WARNING on the
@rise_chain
team
wanted to speak out about my past experience so other devs and potential partners don't make the same mistakes I did. When doing DD on such an important part of the application stack, this red flag was too much for me to ignore. This may offend
Calling all builders!
RISE is the new high-performance EVM compatible L2 that you have been waiting for.
Achieving Gigagas & 100k+ TPS, we unlock possibilities for entirely new dApps.
This is the blockchain broadband moment 🧵⬇️
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I will publicly debate anyone from
@puffer_unifi
with any moderator or structure on the following subject:
Spire Labs' based appchains are better than Puffer's UniFi and appchains. On technical, roadmap, and even strategy.
🗼vs🐡
@jasnoodle
@AmirOnchain
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Exactly why
@Spire_Labs
based rollups will have strong censorship resistance features. Possibly even stronger than Ethereum L1 today 👀.
@RyanSAdams
@drakefjustin
Justin's claim was that most of the revenue could be captured by the EIP 1559 base fee even on a decentralized sequencer. He is correct in that the 1559 revenue can still be captured on a decentralized sequencer but he is incorrect in that the majority of Base mainnet fees are
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app-specific L2s are impractical today. Most crypto apps need composability with apps or infra that only exists on other chains. Those that don't will find user acquisition expensive due to the extra onboarding pain.
the solution is based sequencing, apps will realize soon.
The app-specific L2 space is still largely a blue ocean for builders.
Tons of quality apps, with the right customizations and unlocks can flourish in ways they cannot on a general purpose L2 or L1. Customize your VM, DA, gas tokens, account abstractions, transaction types,
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@adamscochran
Congratulations! Check out my articles, they might help you out on this journey.
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Super excited to share what we've been working on over the past months. This announcement is a big moment for us, but we have a lot more planned:
- special content exploring different aspects of the Based Stack
- integrations + partnerships
- dev docs + testnet
- events + talks
Thousands of apps.
Thousands of appchains.
In harmony. Conducted by Ethereum.
Spire Labs is announcing our Litepaper for the Based Stack - the next generation rollup framework for building based appchains - and coming out of stealth.
🧵
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based rollups don't need a token for security.
why? they inherit security from ETH.
build based rollups
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A few things I feel strongly about:
- based sequencing is better for Ethereum
- based sequencing is better for apps
- Spire will build the best based rollups
- the BD/devrel strategy of every leading L2 is wrong
- L2s are good for L1s
- Solana is good for crypto
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Researchers and searchers need a way to formally represent their opportunities for collaboration or communication.
I present: "MEV Opportunity Briefs"
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What is a based rollup?
Rollups that use a sequencer election mechanism called "based sequencing".
What is based sequencing?
A sequencer election mechanism that chooses a sequencer from the set of current and future (known) sequencers of the base layer (L1).
🧵
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Based rollups are not "rollups that are aligned with Ethereum" or "rollups that return MEV to Ethereum"
First of all, based rollups are obviously more sovereign than building on Ethereum itself. Imo the only real alternative to based rollups is staying on L1, so this argument
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Read this and then read the last paragraph again.
Based. Rollups. Can. Capture. MEV.
based sequencing could be the answer
(sry to bury the lead)
Here’s the thinking: Decentralising L2s is important, IMO, mostly for censorship resistance. A single centralised sequencer isn’t sustainable long term (for particular applications*), it’s too much of a target for
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Why Ethereum based rollups can have subsecond block times.
From the QTd post's tradeoffs section: 😮💨
> However, based rollups have trade-offs. They sacrifice some profitability by relying on Ethereum for sequencing, missing out on priority fees and MEV. Additionally, they
Based Rollups
What are they, why do they exist, and which projects are already making waves?
A 101 explainer 👇
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What if we could use based sequencing and shared sequencing at the same time?
Big announcement soon.
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This again 🙃
1. based L3s are cool but Ethereum has significantly more network effects than any L2 -> based L2s make more sense.
2. based preconfirmations are getting pushback. Not based rollups. Vitalik himself is bullish on based rollups.
3. preconfirmations are a solution to
Based sequencing is effectively limited to settling to L2s (as based L3s) or Solana.
It just won't work with slow base layer blocktimes, and we all know Ethereum isn't changing that anytime soon.
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bullish
@colludingnode
We are just one week away from our in-person ZK Residency 🌉
We've got some killer teams attending, a great lineup of content and a month of nonstop shipping 🚢
Bullish ZK.
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> Therefore the only value capture mechanism for an asset ledger is MEV
Apps generate MEV
Apps can internalize MEV (auctions with censorship resistance, mev tax, ordering agnosticism, ASS)
Asset ledgers make no MEV
Every chain is worth nothing
It is impossible to use software all day every and experience 0 marginal cost of software
And concurrently believe that blockchain Tx fees (data + Tx fees) will not asymptotically approach 0
Therefore the only value capture mechanism for an asset ledger is MEV
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Huge congratulations to the
@SorellaLabs
team.
I met
@0xvanbeethoven
this February when he cold DMd me asking for contributions to Brontes. While I never got a chance to make any meaningful contributions, I've been excited about this for a long time.
With respectable raise
1/ We’re excited to announce our $7.5M seed round, led by
@paradigm
, to build the next generation of on-chain markets.
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Common mistake. Preconfirmations have been around quite a while (cc:
@primev_xyz
). Justin introduced a special type of preconf: based preconfs.
1/
Preconfirmations, or "preconfs," are an
@ethereum
innovation to boost transaction efficiency and cut confirmation times.
Proposed by
@drakefjustin
in 2023, they aim for sub-second finality with decentralization and security. 🧵 👇
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This is big. Not only for Ethereum but also for every builder who wants a really good technical foundation for execution on their app. Unfortunately, these rollups still use a centralized sequencer and by default are isolated islands that are too fragmented.
@SuccinctLabs
is
Starting today,
@Optimism
OP Stack chains on Conduit can have fast finality and ZK proofs. You can withdraw to Ethereum in minutes – no more 7-day delay.
This is possible thanks to our new partnership with
@SuccinctLabs
using their OP Succinct technology.
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Global shared state is great, but unfortunately it tends to come with global shared execution + consensus too.
And everyone wants to customize these.
AWS has hundreds of different customized solutions. Blockchains will have hundreds of different customized solutions.
1/n
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What if I told you the app was also the protocol.
We can all be fat together.
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Improving the L1 makes L2s better.
Improve Ethereum -> everyone happy
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@KyleReidhead
@coinbase
@base
@CoinbaseWallet
Will wallets or apps cover this? I can imagine the most immediate value is for applications, but wallets may also generate some value for routing or similar.
Where do you imagine the long term incentives take us?
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Hope you chaos maxis enjoyed this.
@ceciliaz030
is an incredibly based podcaster.
Big
@Spire_Labs
update soon. Stay tuned.
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What if we could do based sequencing AND shared sequencing with other rollups...
at the same time.
coming soon to research forums near you
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The
@chainbound_
team is one of the top teams in the eco. A VC recently asked me which preconf protocol was my favorite.
Easy answer. God I love a good 🛳️.
INTRODUCING BOLT: ALPHA RELEASE
Enabling Sub-second Preconfirmations with Trustless Proposer Commitments on Ethereum
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Contrarian take, but I think RaaS providers will be in a good spot for the next few years.
As we start to see interest in launching more chains (appchains but also other L2s), the need for reliable infrastructure is growing.
This infra (things like rpcs, sequencers, blockchain
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As the narrative begins to move back towards L1 execution (as many predicted), I'd like to take a second to step back. Applications have shown an appetite for scaling, and we have built Ethereum's narrative (most chains' for that matter) around scaling.
Scaling translates to
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Sent out the
@Spire_Labs
whitepaper to a bunch of people today...
Expect big announcements soon 👀
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based rollups:
- work with mainstream wallets ootb
- can use exchange liquidity on L1
- idk about custody but imagine it's not super tricky to use L1
- can use fiat on ramps from L1
- can use oracles from L1 in real time (a feature of
@Spire_Labs
' Based Stack)
- can get close to
@0xtaetaehoho
hardest things are crypto adjacent integrations:
- mainstream wallets
- direct exchange liquidity (deposit / withdraw)
- custody solutions
- fiat on-ramps
- oracles
- native stables
Market leaders charge 2-5m to integrate, second tier a few hundred thousand. Many have
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@Evan_ss6
Excellent based sequencing: <1 year
Full sync composability: 3-4 years
Cc:
@ceciliaz030
@Brechtpd
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Congrats to the
@Commit_Boost
contributors!
1/ We are excited to share that Commit-Boost is headed towards audit and production! As an open-source, public good, this could not have been possible without many teams across the Ethereum Community. Thank you for all your time and effort! See below 👇
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wtf. blocked.
no excuse for being an asshole like this
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A few big rollups, thousands of appchains
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LFG, go vote guys!
This proposal from
@mteamisloading
currently in the lead for the
@BanklessHQ
listener-proposed podcast episode!
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Mark your calendars!
@drjasper_eth
and I will be chatting everything solo staking!
Topics to cover:
- What is Solo Staking? Home Staking?
- Are solo stakers necessary for censorship resistance?
- Is
@MaxResnick1
crazy?
- WW3 resistance?
- How do
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Imagine if these were based rollups.
@Spire_Labs
Starting today,
@Optimism
OP Stack chains on Conduit can have fast finality and ZK proofs. You can withdraw to Ethereum in minutes – no more 7-day delay.
This is possible thanks to our new partnership with
@SuccinctLabs
using their OP Succinct technology.
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Staking is the app that Ethereum sells right now. Soon this will change.
We had execution, staking, settlement, then DA.
Ethereum's shiny new product is sequencing.
build based rollups
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just joined, enjoy the show!
Are Based Rollups Really Based? With
@0xBreadguy
,
@ceciliaz030
of
@gwnyenth_taiko
, and
@sam_battenally
of
@rise_chain
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At Spire Labs , we are building for a future of composable chains where applications can specialize without incurring large costs for sovereignty. The goal is to eliminate fragmentation as much as possible to allow projects to focus on their core product and their community.
❤️
At NodeKit, we are building for a future of composable chains where applications can specialize without incurring large costs for sovereignty. The goal is to eliminate fragmentation as much as possible to allow projects to focus on their core product and their community.
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Great take from Justin at ZuBerlin. This is exactly what
@Spire_Labs
is building:
"One of my theses is that we're going to see specifically appchains want to be based rollups, and the reason is that they will have sovereignty, basically they will have the ability to capture
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Build based rollups
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The stage is set.
BRAID vs Mechan-stein
To the death.
happy wednesday! stoked to share a new article titled "Mechan-stein," which explores how combining existing proposals that target different outcomes (e.g., transparent MEV-markets vs. censorship resistance) may lead to a more complete solution.
🧟🧪🧬⚕️➷
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Has Ethereum lost the plot? Why is the ETH ecosystem so confusing for devs? Does decentralization matter?
as an Ethereum-values-aligned infra founder, there's a lot to unpack here
a🧵
@jessepollak
there are so many lol, not the best writer but here are some that come to mind:
- Real users are not choosing ethereum rn and don't need ETH the asset at all, mostly due to ux but also prolly confusing as a new user to even join and see the politics of it
- Since ethereum
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Great stuff!
I always like to point out that based sequencing > shared sequencing because of more than credible neutrality.
Ethereum is more robust + reliable than any shared sequencer network today and already has hundreds of thousands of nodes.
Ethereum sequencing good.
Once you get base-pilled, it’s difficult to unsee it!
Network Effects of Shared Security, Shared Composability, and Shared Synchrony
Here's a summary of a recent episode of
@therollupco
, featuring
@drakefjustin
(ETH Researcher), co-hosted by
@ayyyeandy
and
@robbie_rollup
.
We
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@NashQueue
Giving preconfirmation commitments decreases the set of all blocks that you can build (but it also may increase it if you are getting access to new transactions) and so proposers would be compensated with a "preconf tip".
Timing games with preconfs can be solved in a variety of
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A non-permanent pseudo-identity (an anon account) has no reputational risk, which often leads to manipulation and toxicity.
You can whistleblow from main, or use a permanent pseudo-identity with some reputational collateral.
Attacking discourse, sybiling, and hijacking public
The reality is that anonymous accounts have never been cool.
"Alignment anons" were the cultural and intellectual bottom of Ethereum Twitter.
These were dozens of accounts, many controlled by the same 2-3 people (well known by now), Sybil attacking the public discourse while
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1/n
real users > airdrop farmers
BUT
airdrop farmers often have huge budgets (I've been on these teams, it can get crazy) and often contribute to the profitability of a chain or app by paying fees and generating positive metrics.
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Ethereum is the best sequencer.
Not because of how it sequences, but because of what it sequences.
build based rollups
Maybe United Chains of Ethereum isn't 100% a bad idea? We badly need something to align L2s around...something neutral and simple that different teams can get behind.
Thinking cap stays on until we figure out how to solve this social fragmentation problem.
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@llamaonthebrink
bridging to and from dydx v4 is a pain in the butt too. Took me 40 minutes to deposit from Ethereum but idk if this is representative of the average.
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Users and apps generate value.
Users and apps will accrue value.
Apps will ultimately accrue all the value
The only thing left will be money
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99.9% apps
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Many of the responses to this tweet are dead wrong.
👇
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Excited about the Ethereum protocol? Based rollups?
Try your hand at our
@Spire_Labs
interview screening! Now open for anyone!
Google form link 👇
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Congrats to the Eclipse team! Excited to see adoption in the coming months.
Eagerly awaiting details of MEV redistribution from the centralized sequencer!
Eclipse Mainnet is now open for builders.
We've delivered Solana on Ethereum. As Ethereum's first SVM L2, this milestone represents a major step forward in Ethereum scalability.
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Ethereum will win the race to unify Ethereum.
build based rollups
AggLayer
Elastic chain
Superchain
Metalayer
Hyperlane
Across
Avail
LiFi
Catalyst
Everclear
LayerZero
Union
Omni
Astria
Espresso
Nodekit
...and many more, all trying to solve the modular fragmentation and UX dilemma. Will it work? I'm betting yes.
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based rollups be like
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While many people will intuitively agree with
@danrobinson
's take (everyone likes helping users) I think this is mostly unfortunately inaccurate.
First of all, web2 parallels here tell a slightly different story. Users are not rewarded for the value they create for most apps.
The debate about whether MEV should go to L1s, L2s, or apps is somewhat missing the point
MEV should go to the user it came from. And I think in the winning system, to the extent possible, it will
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based rollups are Ethereum
Are L2s/rollups Ethereum?
Easy answer: of course not.
Rollups/L2s are clearly not ethereum, because when you pay for blockspace, you pay the L2/rollup, and the L2/rollup then pays for services (proofs, DA, whatever) from Ethereum by choice, and can change this whenever it
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They said it couldn't be done.
They were wrong.
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Guess who's delivering?
@Spire_Labs
Rare, aligned take from me:
Based rollups are genuinely special and offer novel functionality that regular L2s can’t offer.
Lots of people are sleeping on this… I imagine it’s because nobody trusts the specs in DeFi product announcements anymore. But based rollups can deliver.
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The accidental liveness slashing problem with based preconfs has a simple solution that has been right under our noses this whole time.
Research coming soon 👀
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@MaxResnick1
@drakefjustin
Justin's argument also does not explain how this revenue can still be captured by Base even if the sequence constructors are L1 validators. Justin still holds an outdated model of what based rollups could look like.
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@TrustlessState
@Spire_Labs
Three big ones to note:
1. we inherit the default censorship resistance of the L1. We are supporting
@Commit_Boost
and their efforts to add out-of-protocol Inclusion Lists which would make Ethereum itself more censorship resistant.
2. "forward based sequencing" is a feature we
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L2s will only stay on Ethereum if Ethereum is providing a service that is actually valuable and competitive in the market (on things like cost and reliability).
(hint: this service is not DA)
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L2 censorship is never acceptable. CR from day one or never switch.
Build Based Rollups, take off the training wheels.
Linea's team made a decision to halt block production by pausing the sequencer and censor attacker addresses to protect the users and builders in our ecosystem. Like other L2s, we are still in the "training wheels" phase of existence, giving us safeguards to use.
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I don't expect that solvers/searchers will be primary consumers of execution preconfs. As pointed out by
@0x94305
, a fair price for preconfs on arbitrage is hard to come by.
I believe end users ("dumb money", unsophisticated) will consume most preconfs given.
a quick 🧵
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Does
@AcrossProtocol
actually do CoW?
cc
@hal2001
@RuneKek
Its like
@AcrossProtocol
but for token swaps rather than chain swaps
It’s “no MEV” because the MEV searcher bots are the ones providing the service. Cowswap forces the MEV bots into an auction, which transfers the MEV value back to the swapper
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@0xMert_
I appreciate many of your posts, but saying stuff like that is just mean. Thats bully behaviour.
Yes, Adam can be boring.
Doesn't make it okay to be a jerk.
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Spire Appchains break this same tradeoff but start with Ethereum 's network effects as a foundation.
Distribution on new L1 or distribution on The L1. Up to you.
delta has the best shot at solving the trade off app developers have to make between modular vs monolithic chains.
Launching on a modular chain gets you customizability, but no distribution or connectivity.
Monolithic chains deliver users, but limited customizability.
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DeFi is hard, many choose to take shortcuts.
bullish
@0xFastLane
As a team that ships decentralized and permissionless products, our biggest problem is that most other teams falsely claim those traits, diluting their meaning.
Some centralized and permissioned apps:
UniX
CoW Swap
1inch Fusion
Aori
Metamask swaps
0x
Etc…
They are NOT DeFi.
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Permissionless based sequencing is the single best way to bootstrap a sequencer set (and a good one too).
There is a censorship resistant, decentralized, and robust network of more than one million validators at your fingertips.
build based rollups
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Appchains are not a viable solution with today's technology. Writing an article on how appchains need based sequencing to be the best option for app developers.
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This is one of the things
@Spire_Labs
will support.
Based, app-specific L3s which settle to L2s are extremely interesting from a composability and MEV perspective.
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if you have experience with building L2s (esp OP Stack) and looking for some cutting edge opportunities
please DM.
@Spire_Labs
is hiring
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Excited to announce a new role in preconfirmations research. The "Preconfirmation Gateway" abstracts preconfirmations from users to enable seamless integration into existing wallet infrastructure.
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