☆ a. chavez ☆
@loveigniting
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This narrative Ryan Condal has been pushing as if HOTD is the real story of F&B is a nonsensical assertion. While there are aspects of F&B that are debated rumors, GRRM is clear about what those are versus what are facts!!!
to clear up the book alicent vs show alicent debate: the history books got it wrong
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Y'all are absolutely stupid to think everything in F&B is rumors and open to interpretation.
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@luciferlush
I'm confused because this is the Getty images pic and he looks the same as the "edited" picture to me
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Here is the passage from F&B where Book! Rhaenyra wanted to display Vhagar's and Tessarion's heads as warnings against treason. Use this as needed after next Sunday's episode. TB's going to act like Meleys being displayed is sacrilege that a real Targaryen would never do.
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But Alicent does more than betray her forced motherhood in that scene. She abjures herself entirely as a char. The show abjures all her actions by her capitulation, by Rhaenyra's response & validates fans who called her a hypocrite usurping whore who seduced Viz as a teen. This—
Only in the hotd fandom can you find people saying that a woman betraying the duties of forced motherhood for another woman that she loves deeply is "misogynistic writing" ijbol
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These are 39-40 year old actresses. Some of you are way too online and have forgotten what folks look like.
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@wingedjacaerys
I hate to tell you this but some of us are prestige drama fans and not kids who need TV for morality plays nor are we superhero fans. Please go watch Sesame Street or the MCU if you need fiction to teach you about right vs wrong or if you need superheroes.
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Talking to the average TB fan is actually painful because they're just not smart and they're as media savvy as children.
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Forget what F&B says. Just think about the show. It would make more sense by the logic established in the show if Helaena didn't claim Dreamfyre at all then.
Dreamfyre isn't out in the wild. She's in the pit. Helaena risked her life but doesn't ride her 🤨 oh ok.
Phia Saban wishes Helaena got the chance to fly or interact with her dragon Dreamfyre this season on
#HouseOfTheDragon
:
“It's House of the Dragon, and I've got a dragon, and I haven't got on it. I'm rusty. I really wanted to get on the dragon. I went and watched a few people on
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Saying Rhae would've set precedent *because* it's fiction only works if the *author* writes it that way.
GRRM shows Rhae denying eldest daughters TWO times. That's him telling you. Bourgeosie glass ceiling feminism peddled by likes of Sheryl Sandberg & HRC fans is all this is.
what do you not understand? are you stupid? she was USURPED and she DIED we’re talking about what she would’ve done if that didn’t happen. by simply being queen she would’ve set precedent. would HAVE. i hope it got to your thick head. she WOULD HAVE set precedent. okay?
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Because it's not the books lol. We're going to see Aemond become a monster and despite what purists say watching devolution happen in real time is more interesting. There's no way to avoid his crimes. It just won't be as cartoonish as it was.
show!aemond: more likable, more humanized, smarter and more capable, more dutiful, mama's boy, retaliatory instead of the instigator, on his way down a tragic corruption arc of his own making
y'all: why are they RUINING every character
😭i don't get it man, it could not be me
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Why Nikolaj is obsessed with cutting Dany down in the specific way he does is simple. She's a woman with power who doesn't get her power from a man. The dragons derive from her walking into the pyre. The Dothraki follow her strength, the Unsullied follow her after she frees them
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All he needed to do was groom his niece for Team Black. I'll stop I'll stop now.
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Felt offended at TB saying L*** was a better High Valyrian speaker than Aegon and Aemond combined and getting 48k likes. Mind you, Aemond was saying words like "sobriquet" and "lickspittle."
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I didn't count but many such HOTD sub reddit comments "I'm TB but I find every character on TG way more interesting to watch.....Go TB!!"
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Y'all want to hear a wild ass theory about Alys and Aemond's son? Wilder than the Faegon one?
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@aryasmercy
More people need to get comfortable in enjoying things even if they're criticized, even if unpopular, and even if the author doesn't approve. It's like they can't love something unless it gets all these stamps of legitimacy and anything that threatens that must be stamped out
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@wingedjacaerys
I just wonder what you guys are doing here. Breaking Bad, Mad Men, Sopranos, Deadwood, Succession are all shows that involved morally reprehensible people at the center. That's prestige drama bread and butter.
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There's a lot of anger to this quote because the show is not the books and Emma's perspective is based on the show. If you cannot separate show canon from book canon, you will keep getting angry every time the show reminds you they're not the same thing.
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Yall shouldn't be paying attention to these type of people no matter how much they posit themselves as intellectuals of the fandom. Look at this fool catering to misogynists.
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I can't stop thinking of Vhagar and Aemond's death. Of all the riders she had and their deaths, he's the only one who died atop her. He's the only one that dies with Visenya's iconography.
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GoT aired from 2011-2019.
You were 7-15 years old during Game of Thrones run.
What the fandom thinks about Cersei now is not what they thought then.
viewers have always loved “bad guys” take a look at cersei who the got audience loved!! they’re not popular bc y’all have deluded yourselves into believing they’re very complex and deep characters when in reality they’re just a bag of half baked and inconsistent headcanons 🙁
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Many Daemyra fans mocked Alicent's rape.
They were happy for Laena's disrespect and insulted her with tweets about how Daemon laughing at her funeral was to help Rhaenyra
They laughed at Rhea's murder.
The treatment of women didn't bother you till your ship fell victim too.
notice how daemyra accs are talking about hotd's gratuitous exploitation of female trauma and suffering meanwhile the other side is mocking teen girls calling them fucking dumb for liking daemon and the other is cheering an irresponsible depiction of dv because of a ship
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Helaena and Aemond did not die the same day.
Aemond and Daemon have the same dates of death. Helaena doesn't.
TPATQ, TWOIAF, F&B, and Rise of the Dragon are consistent that Helaena died the same day Rhaenyra's allies abandoned her.
That's the "same night" referenced.
1/
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When you remember that s1 and s2 are within weeks of each other....
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Barbie is a PG-13 (kids over 13) movie. The Little Mermaid was PG (kids over 10).
They both were meant for children and adult women who are nostalgic about their childhood.
But I see you're still whining about BIPOC calling you out for ignoring that.
when was the last major blockbuster you can remember that was made for a female audience? (i’ll wait). up to now, Hollywood did not think women were important. execs think the audience is men and boys and their moms / wives / girlfriends will see what they want to see
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I can't believe there's excuses for what Rhaenyra says about Nettles. Trying to pass it as her paranoia due to Mysaria and cheating doesn't work. If you call a BIPOC a racial slur, that's racist regardless of whether that person did something to you.
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GRRM's most recent blog post is comparing the show vs his books rn wrt dragons. He's implicitly criticizing the show's choice re: erasing Nettles in that post. I don't think he would at all agree that the show is just filling in the liminal space of F&B.
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Why does Alicent not get to bring up Viserys in a negative manner in her scene with Rhaenyra when that marriage is what made her a forced mother?
Why is he still preserved as a character in that scene?
You know damn well why.
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"bastard is a slur" and "Valyrians accept bastards" from Team ⚫️ is funny when Rhaenyra ends up distrusting and trying to torture her allies because they're bastards and thus untrustworthy and Valyrian Lord Celtigar tries to tax people for having bastards.
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GRRM has also differentiated between his universe and the show's. Several times.
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Alys Rivers, Daenerys Targaryen and Shiera Seastar are rumored to bathe in blood to look young.
Alys and Daenerys are rumored to commit blood sacrifice.
Daenerys is rumored to be so promiscuous she fucks horses.
It's the same type of gossip repeated because it's sexism.
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@aromcommunist
@conquerorscrown
I'm going to hold a grudge against her for saying civilians don't matter. What kind of....
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The humbling of Alicent was just Alicent's metaphoric Walk of Shame.
Except, Cersei in her Walk of Shame got to think, “I am Cersei of House Lannister, a lion of the Rock, the rightful queen of these Seven Kingdoms, trueborn daughter of Tywin Lannister. And hair grows back.”
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comes in a long series of humbling events for Alicent starting probably with her feet to her sex with Criston to fish being thrown in her face. She's even brings up having Criston as a lover in the conversation with Rhaenyra. Why? If this was about rejecting forced motherhood?
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We will never know because we will never see the book so that will have to remain your headcanon and not canon. I just wish y'all never learned what ASOIAF was after watching HBO.
asoiaf will never be as anti monarchy as u all pretend. dany is gonna rule westeros at one point and ultimately reject it bc it has bad vibes.
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I hope Sunfyre being shown to be still alive and Aegon opening his eyes are scenes that are visually interspersed with each other.
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I love Aegon III. He was like 'make my best friend my heir' and the best friend being Aegon II's bastard.
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@milsshjz
If you really knew what greek tragedies are, you wouldn't be talking because Aghamemmnon for example is considered the first tragic hero in The Oresteia and he sacrifices Iphigenia his daughter. If you really knew Greek tragedies, you sound ridiculous considering how most of the
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idk why the fandoms of the most popular characters and ships end up being the most insecure but they always are.
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The scene was misogynistic because its intent was misogynistic and it was feed for the misogyny that existed around Alicent since 1x02
If you think a wlw ship makes it so that misogyny can't be perpetuated via writing around either or both chars, graduate from feminism 101.
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She's the leader of the greens in F&B lol.
erased from history and she is one of the main characters for greens, even after the fall of KL she tried to divide the kingdom and got "forgotten" only during her imprisionment and after helaena's death, but at that point she was already going crazy
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I'm going to be pretentious and gatekeep but HBO is the only reason you know GRRM's name or his books. You don't know a thing about him. You're also putting words in Xiran's mouth because she never said anything about the ending she's owed. I hope you get nothing.
GRRM is an artist, he's not a social activist. He doesn't owe an ending with the trite msg of "Monarchy is bad!" to any reader, esp since the themes of how common folks suffer under royalty is already there in the books. I don't expect mediocre YA writers to know this, tho.
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If this is true, there's no point in any defense of Alicent. The show abjures the defenses by telling you that the people who called Alicent a hypocrite usurping whore who seduced Vizzy as a teen were right
I'm embarrassed for Alicent
@edensvale
The way Rhaenyra was throwing all of twitter’s think pieces and “jokes” back into Alicent’s face. Like it was so forced and obviously meant to be audience humbling Alicent for odd reasons
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Ask yourself that if you would accept that scene from character X to character Y if it wasn't your ship. Don't lie and pretend you would.
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I've been reading y'all spread Ryan's nonsense uncritically and I've had ENOUGH. The show isn't the correct version of Westerosi history despite what he says.
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@vicjokerera
@AshiaMonet
Oh? Rhaenyra called a Black girl a common thing and a low creature. I guess that's just banter.
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42k likes ijbol Rhaena did NOT leave happy with what she got. What are y'all smoking
rhaena realizing rhaenyra is not only trusting her with the future of house targaryen, but also the future of dragons, finally realizing how important she is for the course of the war, riding a dragon or not
#HouseoftheDragon
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I absolutely hate that stupid prophecy and everytime the specter of it looms over scenes, I'm forced to remember how it all ended and yes it ruins it for me.
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It's not going to make your ship talk to each other still so where do we go from there?
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To use one example, Nettles existed in F&B. The show is telling me she didn't exist.
I think you might send George into a bigger fit of apoplexy than he had over the dragon changes if you suggested that the SHOW trumps his works.
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The lies parents, especially dads, tell in public to make themselves seem like good dads. I don't hate any of the characters really but Vizzy T makes it hard.
Rewatched the dinner scene and god, the pain that the Targtowers must have felt when they heard "This old man who loves you very much," there is nothing that smarts more than a parent boldly lying about loving you to your face.
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ofc Aemond's name doesn't get repeated. He, like Visenya has a black reputation. The one time Daemon gets used it's for a bastard who ensures it'll never be used again. Rhaenyra is never used. No Jaces, Lukes, nor Helaena's.
The only Joffrey we see is Cersei's illegitimate son.
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You offered no evidence other than "bro trust me" and what you're saying about Greek tragedy is so funny when Agamemnon sacrificed his daughter to the gods and he's considered the first tragic hero of The Oresteia! I can go on with examples unlike you.
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Well news about the finale seem bad but I'm taking enjoyment in the small things. Seeing H*laemonds be exactly who I knew they were despite all the attempts at moral superiority and cries about how much they care about Helaena. It's self-insert fantasy and has been from the start
Am I bad for thinking the way Aemond grabbed Helaena was hot as fuck?! The way he dragged her and was raising his voice?!!! OH MY GOD! I hate that my babygirl got hurt but that was SO YUMMY!!!! 🔥 🔥 🔥
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Way too many people still think the height of a good character is to be badass or girlboss. What do acts of machismo matter without interiority? What does girlbossing matter without character development? What does that matter without a character arc?
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The obsession with youth and looking perpetually young is killing us slowly. She looks great.
Lmao wow Daenerys Targaryen didn’t just hit the wall she flew into it full speed on a dragon 🐉
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George, my og fanfic hater, you gotta shut this down. They're acting like HOTD is the real story of F&B again.
GRRM has said the show and his books are separate canons. Don't insult him by suggesting that Ryan Condal's story is the one that takes precedence over George's.
some of you should not be allowed to watch this show with such terrible takes
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I'm not a book purist at all!! I've made several posts over the years about how I love when adaptations interpret a story from new angles. But I expect internal consistency and coherency within its own reimagined story and HOTD S1 and HOTD S2 do not seamlessly fit.
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Picture Dany saying she's sorry for everything she's done and apologize for coming to Westeros. Now try to picture if her stans would EVER accept a scene like that.
So why are you as an Alicent fan cheering a scene where Alicent apologizes for all her choices?
I haven't watched the finale but I'm ctfu at imagining any, say, hard-core Dany stan enjoying a scene where she humbles herself like this. They wouldn't and you all know it so lmaooo
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Otto's final words to Rhaenyra and Alicent when his head's on the chopping block:
rhaenicent isn’t a thing and never will be 🖤
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Their father was laughing at their mom's funeral when he wasn't balls deep in his niece so I guess comforting Baela and Rhaena is up to Aemond 😔
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@kumamda2
Mind you, that man HATES fanfiction and is very particular about his canon. But sure.
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The unemployment rates in this fandom are sky high because what is this
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Some people said Aemond ignored his mother and sister being captive in KL and just stayed in the Riverlands.
Meanwhile Aemond in The Princess & The Queen wanting to attack KL immediately with Vhagar:
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@PROUDM00RE
You should always fight dirty in a life and death match but this is funny.
So Daemon killed a kid 1/2 his age, a kid with 1/2 his warrior experience, but now you're telling he had to use his disability to do it??
And he couldn't do that without killing himself too????
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I love F&B too but it's a dry "historical" text. Extrapolating headcanons from a few sentences is fine. Saying that those few sentences is better character work than 500 minutes of fleshing out character dynamics is ridiculous.
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By this logic, what does it say about Israelis who haven't risen up against their government? What does it say about Americans? Anyone from a country where the government commits atrocities? This logic is going to bite people in the ass when chickens come to roost.
Israel's president is denying the concept of innocent civilians, on the brink of a major military offensive. A very bad sign.
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Visenya loved her sister Rhaenys but she most likely poisoned Rhaenys' son.
She usurped Rhaenys' line. She didn't gaf birthright then.
F&B says Visenya wasn't happy about Rhaena's birth due to the succession. Later she usurps and helps force Rhaena in marrying Maegor. +
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Like Fabian, Reddit said Ewan is very good at stage fights. They said it makes him look like he's a better fighter than his uncle when he shouldn't be lmao
If this ends up like Kit's skills leading them to write Jon as the best swordsman while Book Jon was average, I will laugh!
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GRRM repeatedly said F&B is a history book, not a novel. History books are not narratives of exactly what happened with all events filled in by an objective observer. Did your history books talk about residential schools and their genocidal purpose? Did they demonize Columbus?
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Prince Daeron "the youngest and gentlest of [Alicent's] children"
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@korysupremacy
Aemond is missing an eye and he dies because of his blind spot. He's disabled.
The only way George could've been more explicit about his disability is if Aemond was a POV character who got to introspect in a novel. F&B is a history book.
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They could've picked Egg, Daeron the Good, Baelor Breakspear. Instead they went with the type of man who fools people into thinking he's a good man.
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Daemon might be a sicko but at least the show's not afraid to go there. The untouchability and aspirational writing going on for * is exhaustively boring and getting to me.
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You would think I am Viserys
#1
hater but I really like his character as part of the story even though I don't like him as a person. But I wonder now if the praise the actor and character got after s1 is part of the reason for how s2 frames him.
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MCUification of the GOT/HOTD fanbase has always been obnoxious but particularly insufferable to me today. Wdym you saw a shot of Dany and you're calling it a great finale. The same flavor of folks cheering on the Dr. Doom news....
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Calling Luke a Targ prince while acting like Aemond is just a Hightower.
Hightowers are likely descended from pre-Valyrian dragonlords from Empire of the Dawn. Jorah tells Dany his wife looks like her. Jaeherys mistakes Alicent for his kids. Alerie Hightower has silver hair.
visenya targaryen, who famously despised house hightower and the faith of the seven, would be okay with aemond, the son of a hightower, using her mount to kill a targaryen prince?
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Aemond IS accultured to incest just like another prince who spoke of marrying his sisters.
8 yo Aegon V spoke "as if incest was the most natural thing in the world"
Adult Aegon V was "convinced such incestuous unions did more harm than good"
He married for love.
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idk I think a woman who was immediately so perceptive about Daemon would realize that talking to him like Rhea Royce did would idk turn him off
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According to the show's own internal logic, the show has justified Aemond's crime before he does it. I don't think they intended this but Aemond will be using the show's exact logic about crime and punishment at Storm's End.
I wrote something:
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@aryasmercy
When I have to watch Olivia Cooke play out the loss of all her children, I won't make it.
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Imagine it will be Aegon alone finding out before
#that
scene about Alicent selling him out and his choice to kill Rhaenyra will be driven by finding that out. I imagine Alicent will ask to spare her life and he'll refuse as a fuck you to her. Then they're left as the last two...
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The 🟢 started a revenge tragedy as of Aegon's crowning and Luke's death.
Show Alicent in particular fits all elements of Aristotle's tragic hero: nobility, anagnorisis, catharsis, hamartia, nemesis, hubris, peripeteia
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No one is going to believe Aemond didn't intend to kill Luke. Not a single soul. For all intents and purposes, the truth is what people believe and people will believe he killed Luke on purpose.
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Looking at Vhagar's kill count under Aemond vs Visenya, Baelon, and Laena combined 💀💀💀💀💀💀
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/ARTOFASOIAF who sent nudes to minors gets exposed periodically and nothing really happens. This is the fandom he's in so I'm not surprised that's he's still active and thriving.
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Common Davos Seaworth W
History is far from kind to those who defend Apartheid.
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Do you want to watch a good story or do you want to win? A lot want to win. People saying they won't watch the TB scenes or the TG scenes or people acting like music stans act about charts but with a television show telling a story. Stanning to that level will ruin your enjoyment
they in the quotes crying about “but who wins the POLLS” like is it not embarrassing when you’d rather have your favourite character win an online poll rather than actually do interesting things and have complex storylines 😭
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@aryasmercy
They're annoyed because they want to live in the fandom environment where only their team gets these kind of posts. That's the fandom they expected before the show started. That continues to be the crux of it.
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To deny the Targaryen nature of all the kids and their bonds with their dragons is one thing but Aemond of all people?
Hightowers are likely descended from pre-Valyrian dragonlords too so that makes this funnier. Evidence for that claim in thread.
none of Alicent’s children uphold the principles of being Targaryens. they’re hightowers culturally & ethnically. the blonde hair and dragons don’t make them Targaryens. When they behave and ALIGN themselves with Hightowers.
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You're trying to point out hypocrisy by citing an age difference but there's no coorelation: OP didn't call out an age difference. OP called out people sexualizing a child bouncing on a grown man's knee. You implied fetishizing a child is inherent to shipping Rhaenyra and Daemon.
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