It was very sad to read a book about a lifelong conflict between John Owen and Richard Baxter, two pastors who had every reason to be allies given how much they agreed upon, but due to pride, a lack of curiosity, a refusal to find common ground, unforgiveness leading to bitterness, and the failure of every other minister around them to mediate, they both went to their graves hating one another. May PCA ministers avoid such unChristian behavior.

@sassiterian @JoshuaTorrey @revtizzy Thanks Adam and Josh. Got mixed up.

I wrote this over a year ago after doing a bunch of reading on subscription in American Presbyterianism and in the PCA. I aimed to lay out a taxonomy of the different positions, observe how PCAers think and speak about this issue, and then offer an evaluation of what is best approach. Bottom line: The PCA has chosen a wise path, and we should stick with it. On Confessional Subscription in the PCA

@JohnStSomething @andy_schreiber @SEdburg No argument there from me.

Nothing in the standards suggests women may not be deacons according to Scripture. So joining the denomination with a disagreement with the BCO hoping that it changes does not involve joining to subvert the denomination any more than someone who wants to make any number of BCO changes.

@smccann24 Sadly, no. I don't have one resource that focuses on that, nor do several church planting pros I was just talking to on Zoom.

RT @echppll: A fun read from Robert Strimple @OrthodoxPC

RT @cbradedwards: If you haven’t yet pre-ordered The Reason for Church, now is a great time to do so. I just found out that Barnes & Noble…

We are technically one of the few denominations that is growing, so I misspoke. But I think our growth is tenuous in that (I think) we are not growing at a pace that is even consistent with the birth rate. We aren’t even keeping our own children let alone reaching those outside the covenant community. Given the age of our denomination, it is likely our growth with turn around as the older generation passes.

@BlakeReap @coltonlbrewer The PCA is doggedly “grass-roots” on things like funding agencies and seminaries. If it were up to me, I would do something like make it a requirement of our churches to give a small fee to the AC and our seminary in order to vote at GA and presbytery.

@ds_hoffman Not everyone needs to plant churches, but there are so many plants happening because there is a great need for new churches. If we put all our energy towards getting pastors for churches that don't have pastors and ignore new works, we will likely continue to see decline.

@BlakeReap Gotcha. Sorry man. My sense is that you are the sort of person I think churches/presbyteries need to invest in financially b/c of willingness and initiative with proven character (already ordained as an RE).

Definitely a pipeline issue, and it starts before seminary. In my view, churches and presbyteries need to start investing in candidates before and during seminary to eliminate these cost barriers. I'd be interested to hear more about your marketplace experience not being valued enough. What do you mean?

@davidzook Yes. I agree. It's a bit of a vicious circle. How will churches get healthy enough to move in the right direction without pastoral leadership? But what pastor wants to come to an unhealthy church unwilling to change?

@sometimesalight @DrCurtisFreeman Gotcha. Thanks.

@sometimesalight @DrCurtisFreeman OK, sorry. So you are saying, "It is not loving in this case to create disorder in the name of rightly-ordered love."

Certainly, and this is why I said I wasn't trying to make a comment about the current political happenings. I was just thinking that the OP and following comment seemed overstated. ISTM the flood and the plagues against Egypt are pretty clear examples of God taking creation and Egypt back into chaos in order to bring a new creation. So sometimes it is loving to tear down (which likely causes chaos for a time) in order to build up.

I assume you both are alluding to the political events going on right now, and I am not trying to make a statement about that. But in principle, it seems like you are both overstating what God’s way is like. Doesn’t God sometimes tear down in judgment in order to restore? Does he not create chaos in order to bring a new order? This seems like a pretty consistent pattern throughout the redemptive story. I just don’t see how this must be considered inconsistent with love.

@isaiahwlong As a Presbyterian, I believe this is a bad take. It’s like saying Protestants aren’t Christians because they did not come from the Apostolic era.