Matthew Hartke
@MatthewHartke
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Post-Christian Bible nerd endlessly fascinated with the historical Jesus and the origins of Christianity (he/him)
Portland, OR
Joined February 2020
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The biblical case for universalism is decidedly mixed, but the theological case for universalism is unimpeachable.
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Habakkuk: How long?
Jeremiah: 70 yrs
Daniel: Well, 70x7 yrs
John the Baptist: Almost!
Jesus: JUST ABOUT N...
Paul: Well, already but not yet
John: I mean, he really meant like *spiritually* NOW, you know?
2 Peter: And don’t forget God’s time is different than our time!
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“Your problem is with fundamentalism, not historic Christianity” is the progressive version of “You were never saved in the first place.” Different battle lines, same defensive No True Scotsman.
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This morning
@ihopkc
’s Isaac Bennett rehashed all the same prophetic BS as his sexual predator mentor Mike Bickle. Watch how he engages in all the same doublespeak (“we’re doing this bc it’s in the word of God”) and manipulation (“we can’t back down from this”). Unconscionable!!!
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Honestly guys, I’d be so stoked to find out that Christianity is true. I love this tradition and this conversation so much—nothing would make me happier than if I could, in good conscience, continue having this conversation *from the inside* with the breath of God in my lungs.
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“Although the term ‘empty tomb’ is endemic in contemporary literature, it is never used in the earliest Christian materials. The term makes little sense in the light of first-century Jerusalem tombs, which always housed multiple people.” -
@goodacre
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I made it to 34. You know what that means? I’m officially older than Jesus. 😇
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Why am I still so interested in Christian origins? The way I figure it, either the birth of Christianity tells us something incalculably valuable about the nature of the universe, or it tells us something incalculably valuable about ourselves. There’s gold there either way.
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Evangelicals who defend the dishonesty of Lee Strobel’s framing in The Case for Christ because “I know Lee and he’s a really great guy” only succeed in showing further how profoundly ill-suited evangelicalism’s incentive structures are for genuine truth-seeking.
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I just want to say that if you’re coming out of
@ihopkc
& you find yourself questioning your faith more broadly, that’s 100% ok.
I keep hearing people praising victims for not doubting Jesus, & I get it, but it’s unfortunate.
Your questions are valid, healthy, and courageous.
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The last year has been the worst of my life by far. I finally lost my family because they couldn’t respect my boundaries and I could no longer live with the toxicity of their fundamentalism. Now my coparent and I are separating, for much less toxic but no less painful reasons.
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I had many bad experiences with
@ihopkc
leaders, including some who are now in the AG. But in my experience
@allenshood
’s leadership was a bright light of humility, empathy, and sanity in a culture that incentivized spiritual abuse and dysfunction.
I know my father
@allenshood
. He is not a perfect man, but he is a good man. I have seen him at his best, and as all children do, I have seen him at his worst. He’s a sinner being saved by grace.
But my father is not a liar. In 28 years of being his son, I have NEVER witnessed
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Why isn’t there a National Ask an Agnostic day?
Because we won’t give any answers 🤷♂️
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Interns at
@ihopkc
had to fill out this worksheet while they listened to the prophetic history.
It’s 14 pages long, full of questions like “When did Mike have his first encounter with the prophetic?”
This is one of the many ways MB ensured that his stories became our story.
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The story in
@HeavenBentPod
about Mike Bickle allegedly feeding info to Paul Cain is shocking but predictable. Cain likely learned that from William Branham. Chris Reed and Shawn Bolz do the same thing now by studying attendees online profiles. The whole thing is rotten.
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HOW COGNITIVE DISSONANCE EXPLAINS CHRISTIANITY
I’m still turning this into a video, but it got so unwieldy in the writing stage that I’m not sure how long that will take, so I’ll just share it here in the meantime for those interested enough to read it.
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If any human acted the way the God of the Bible does, we wouldn’t hesitate to use words like “abusive,” “barbaric,” and “megalomaniacal,” yet apologists say THIS SAME GOD is our objective standard of morality and going to hell is 100% your fault if you don’t give yourself to him.
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Most of the authors of the New Testament:
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I never stopped loving Jesus. In fact, it was my love for Jesus that drove me to historical criticism, because I wanted to make sure I was loving a real person and not simply a projection of my own wants and needs. IOW, my love for Jesus is the reason I’m no longer a Christian.
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I’ve experienced more personal growth in the last three years through edibles than I ever did through the Holy Spirit. 😎
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It’s missing a couple steps, but Sam’s criticism here is actually quite salient, and the only reason Xians find it ridiculous is that they’re so used to transposing the idea of heaven from biblical ANE cosmology to modern cosmology that they don’t even realize they’re doing it.
“Where is heaven exactly, given that we have multiple telescopes up there beaming back information.” - Sam Harris
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When you base your identity primarily on your religious or political affiliation, changing your mind becomes a threat to your sense of self. When you base your identity on following the evidence wherever it leads, changing your mind only serves to reinforce your sense of self.
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“I know who I am. But you probably don’t know who you are.” - MB, to a small group of young women in St Louis in 1982, just a few months before he moved back to KC and allegedly started grooming a Jane Doe in his new church
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Btw, Jesus was a failed apocalyptic prophet, and every argument to the contrary (including futurist puzzle-piecing, preterist spiritualization, and liberal fantasies of a non-apocalyptic Q) are really just strained attempts at reducing cognitive dissonance.
Did I do that right?
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Happy Thursday! The best evidence suggests that Jesus was a failed apocalyptic prophet and would-be Messiah who was raised up to heaven in the minds of his disciples in order to reconcile their strongly held beliefs with the dissonant reality of his death.
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@bennettisaac
third party investigation, third party investigation, third party investigation, third party investigation, third party investigation, third party investigation, third party investigation, third party investigation, third party investigation, third party investigation
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The creepiness and grooming in this “teaching” was clear even without knowing what we do now, but the fact that Mike mentions Tammy by name, specifically chipping away at her autonomy and sense of self, is just devastating.
“I know who I am. But you probably don’t know who you are.” - MB, to a small group of young women in St Louis in 1982, just a few months before he moved back to KC and allegedly started grooming a Jane Doe in his new church
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Gary Habermas’ new book is a gift that keeps on giving.
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Fascinating article by Helen Bond on the meaning of Mark’s empty tomb narrative:
“The purpose of Mark 16.1-8, therefore, is not to prove Jesus’s physical, fleshly resurrection, but rather to show that he is now in the heavenly realm, ‘seated at the right hand of the Father’”
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Why was Jesus on the Mount of Olives the night of his arrest? Why did he tell his disciples to bring swords? Why was he in such a frenzied state of prayer? Why did he cry out from the cross that God had abandoned him? These don’t seem like the actions of a man who intended to die
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One of the biggest fruits of 24/7 prayer has been pride. A single location that never stops praying is theologically irrelevant if we think in terms of the global body of Christ. But it has fostered an inflated sense of self that blinded leaders from seeing their shortcomings.
It’s time to take whatever monies are left & put them into a fund for those whose lives have been wrecked by a place that claims to love Jesus so much it prays to him 24/7. The praying hasn’t worked. It’s just made IHOPKC more pious in defending the indefensible. It’s time.
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In almost every church I experienced growing up, there was a group of middle aged men who cared a *ton* about having the most correct theology but were personally & practically extremely dysfunctional individuals. It’s helpful for me to remember that these guys have Twitter now.
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Got the keys to our first home today. So insanely thankful. ✨
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Or we could just let the Bible be the mixed bag of ancient texts that it is, honoring it for its good insights while also acknowledging the many places where it has been harmful or shortsighted. No need to twist it or be twisted by it. 🤷♂️
Count on it. Either the Bible changes us or we change the Bible.
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God give me the unearned confidence of Justin Bass debating Bart Ehrman 🙏
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“Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power.” 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
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If you winced at that scene in Oppenheimer that had American flags with 50 stars, just wait till you see hard-headed journalist Lee Strobel circa 1979 investigate Christianity by reading a Gary Habermas book that wasn’t published till 1989.
Check it out: The Case for Christ movie available to watch FREE on Amazon prime right now!
@LeeStrobel
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Hey friends, I know “thoughts and prayers” get a bad rap, and for good reasons, but right now I’m facing probably the hardest, most painful decision I’ve ever had to make, and nobody else can make it for me, so I’d very much appreciate your good vibes in whatever form they come.
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So I’ve read the first chapter of Lydia McGrew’s new book on the reliability of the Gospels, and ya’ll, it’s bad. Like, significantly worse than I expected.
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This is absolutely DEVASTATING.
The fact that the
@ihopkc
executive leadership team calls THIS not worthy of an independent investigation says everything we need to know about the integrity of those leaders.
Shame on you Dave Sliker.
Shame on you Stuart Greaves.
EXCLUSIVE: Woman says
@ihopkc
Fndr Mike Bickle used prophecy to sexually abuse her
“He begins to tell me that the Lord has spoken to him & that Diane is going to die & that we’re going to get married...He at least said that to me 100 times" 1/2
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This was such a great point from
@blaiseforet
and
@ChristinaForet
’s interview with
@starcazm
. Many stories in the prophetic history were designed to fortify
@mikebickle
’s movement against all criticism by making the mission too big to fail and all criticism ultimately demonic.
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I sold my 16 ft tiny home this week and I’m settling into my new little studio. I’m 37 but this is the first time I’ve ever lived fully alone and had my own space to make exactly the way I want it. Feels good 😊
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It will be very interesting to see how IHOPKC handles their prophetic history now that the sole guarantor of those traditions isn’t there to recite them.
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When was the last time you heard an advent sermon that emphasized betrayal?
Well
@ihopkc
brought in Zack Hensley to preach the day after Jane Doe came forward with her allegations of sexual abuse by Mike Bickle, and Hensley thought “advent” and “betrayal” go together perfectly.
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Somebody let Satan know he’s got his business plan all wrong.
Satan's greatest weapon is man's ignorance of God's Word.
A.W. Tozer
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Ludemann: Did Jesus literally ascend to heaven?
WLC: ….
Ludemann: You didn’t answer the question. Where did Jesus go after the resurrection?
WLC: *completely reinterprets the ascension to fit with modern cosmology* What’s the issue? I don’t see any problem here.
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But have you doubted your doubts about the doubts that you previously held in doubt???
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Say what you will about The God Delusion (I’ve actually never read it), you at least have to appreciate the way Dawkins incited every apologist under the sun to play hermeneutical Twister over the problem of God-ordained genocide in the Bible, with endlessly entertaining results.
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Outsiders don’t know the twinge of religious trauma former IHOPers experience every time the Chiefs win the Super Bowl.
@JessieBearWords
@ihopkc
How many Super Bowls do we have to win before the End Time revival starts?!?!
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One of the perks of working so much these days is that I’m finally starting to get a decent collection of books on the historical Jesus.
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After finally reading Richard C. Miller’s article “Mark’s Empty Tomb and Other Translation Fables in Classical Antiquity,” I think I’m beginning to lean firmly on the side of the empty tomb being legendary.
Darkness covered the land
The multitude fled
Romulus had been caught up to heaven & became a god
The multitude, believing & rejoicing, worshipped him
But some tested the matter
Then a reputable man swore that Romulus appeared to him while traveling on the road
- Plutarch 🤯
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@WillCab8
Eric “The Crisis is Over” Volz
Eric “I Would Be The First to Support Victims” Volz
Honestly I think we need a whole line of just Eric.
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To unironically see Jesus’ action in the temple as analogous to the state executing corporal punishment against political vandals instead of as an act of vandalism against the state is just embarrassing.
Christ whipped the money changers. Should we whip political vandals who topple statues, invade government buildings, deface artworks, and block traffic? “Reconsidering corporal punishment,” over at the blog:
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Friendly reminder that “the Bible” isn’t a thing.
Universalism isn’t compatible with SOME texts in the Bible, but that’s just as true of eternal torment and annihilationism.
Different writers in different contexts have different views. There is no ONE biblical view.
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This one is especially hard to hear because in this case the venn diagram of abused and abuser is basically a circle.
Worship ldrs Kevin Prosch &
@mistydedwards
confessed years-long affair that started b4 Prosch & his 2nd wife divorced, sources say
Edwards & Prosch denied affair, but TRR found corroboration, including texts, video & multiple witnesses 1/3
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If my years in charismatic Christianity taught me anything, it’s that the line between “grifter” and “true believer” is often much blurrier than is typically imagined. The most effective liars hide the truth even from themselves.
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I have heard (& experienced) more stories of spiritual abuse, authoritarian control & gross pastoral negligence from these two men than I can count. Seeing them rise to the top despite everything shows that the most important qualification at
@ihopkc
is absolute devotion to MB.
Do these seem like men who genuinely want to pursue truth? Or do they want to control and define what they believe the truth to be.... 3/3
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Reminder that the same Jesus who said “love your enemies” also told story after story about the coming messianic age and those stories consistently end in the torment and/or destruction of half of the characters.
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Maybe this is why so many atheists want Mythicism to be true. They don’t want to think too hard. They just want a quick silver bullet.
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The original meaning of Easter and why it’s a problem for traditional Christian faith:
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@ZachWLambert
My fiancé and I had sex one month before our wedding and I, wanting to be a Good Man, felt like we had to confess our sin to church leadership, so we did. I was then promptly sent into exile four states away until the week of the wedding and she was left to plan everything alone.
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“Most people left the meeting astounded at Cain’s prophetic accuracy. But Grady was disturbed…most of the information Cain relayed to attendees was printed in a staff address directory that was easily available to conference speakers.”
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Nothing says “Jesus is alive” like the tactics of a cold case homicide detective.
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I am once again asking my Christian friends to read the Stoics.
Good point! The pagan deities only cared for the ancient rich and their luxuries. Christ went to the poor, the rejected, the oppressed, and those hurt by the elites. So would you rather hang out with a drunk elitist, or the God of love?
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It really doesn’t help Christianity’s credibility that its most widely used resources for dealing with the problem of divine hiddenness usually involve gaslighting or victim blaming.
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I disagree with
@Joel7Richardson
about many things and we’ve had some heated exchanges in the past but even in those exchanges I found him to be immensely more capable of healthy, honest dialog than men like Greaves, Sliker, or Bickle. Joel isn’t the problem here Eric.
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Preterism… futurism… it’s all the same. Centuries of handwringing trying to make Daniel 9’s reinterpretation of Jeremiah’s 70-year prophecy make sense, when the best explanation is that it doesn’t. It’s a failed prophecy, just like Jeremiah’s.
What's the problem with this timeline of Daniel's 70 weeks?
People often say Daniel's 70 weeks had to be fulfilled in 70 AD, because otherwise we are forced to place a gap after the 7+62 weeks and before the 70th week.
But if you look at their timeline (below), you can see
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The way Gary Habermas tallies the scholarly field in his new book is highly dubious. He cites Allison in favor of the view that James was converted by a post-resurrection appearance, bc Allison made a short comment in that direction in 1985. But he ignores 2021 Allison… ⬇️🤔
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We have much better attestation for Catholic visions of Mary (including many group encounters) over the past two centuries than we do for the appearances of the risen Jesus to the earliest Christians. So why aren’t more evangelical apologists becoming Catholic?
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This is true but they would have been much more shocked by the “many generations later” part.
The apostles would have been absolutely shocked to learn that, many generations later, Christian leaders would be teaching cessationism in their name.
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“The gates of hell are locked from the inside” is just a way for modern Christians to ease their consciences while continuing to cling to a barbaric, dehumanizing parody of justice. To the “damned” who are being written off, though, it only adds extreme insult to extreme injury.
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Publicly committing to writing a thread tomorrow outlining some of my research on cognitive dissonance theory and the birth of Christianity so that hopefully I’ll feel enough pressure to do that.
Reply here if you have any questions or criticisms you’d like me to engage with.
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Miracle is often the simplest explanation of a limited range of data, but zoom in or out a little and the power of that explanation plummets. Of course a resurrection will sound less ad hoc than naturalistic alternatives… until you start asking questions like “where is he now?”
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Since I don’t belong to any Christian tradition, I’ll say this about Christianity as a whole:
The Christian story has inspired many people to be better versions of themselves in ways that I doubt they would have been otherwise.
Say something nice about a Christian tradition other than your own
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The move in OT prophecy from the simple view that God rewards the righteous & punishes the wicked to the expectation that the righteous must suffer, & that this suffering is somehow redemptive, is a perfect example of how repeated failure creates a culture of dissonance-reduction
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Mike Bickle’s last sermon, given days before the sexual abuse allegations against him were made public.
@IHOPKC
has tried to scrub this from the Internet, just like they’ve tried to hide so much about this whole affair, for obvious reasons. It’s a masterclass on spiritual abuse.
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One of the most dramatic stories from Mike Bickle’s prophetic history revolves around this little 50-page book, so I thought I’d take the afternoon to read it and share my thoughts. 🧵
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The “Matthew 18 process” was thrown at me at lot when I started sharing about the spiritual abuse I experienced at
@ihopkc
back in 2015.
I saw the problem with that application, and illustrated it by imagining a case involving sexual abuse.
Little did I know…
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I keep thinking about a time in my early 20s when Dave Sliker, who I greatly admired at the time, told me I was “paying the Holy Spirit lip service” because I dared disagree with him (and, by extension, Mike Bickle) on some obscure point of eschatology.
Hindsight is…something
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Darkness covered the land
The multitude fled
Romulus had been caught up to heaven & became a god
The multitude, believing & rejoicing, worshipped him
But some tested the matter
Then a reputable man swore that Romulus appeared to him while traveling on the road
- Plutarch 🤯
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The more you realize the extent to which everyone is a product of their environment and that bad choices are the product of bad incentives, the harder it becomes to accept any theology which would pin our eternal fate on such a rigged game.
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Lol k bro
@MatthewHartke
@CounterApologis
Tell me that you don’t understand Philippians 2 without saying that you don’t understand Philippians 2.
(Also that you’ve never read Romans).
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This was just taken down from the hallway of the prayer room at
@ihopkc
.
Fun fact: Bickle only started recalling Bob Jones saying they would be “on” Truman’s property AFTER they bought the property in 2008. Before that it was always “next to,” which meant the church building.
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@JonathanGuerry
@InspiringChris1
I couldn’t help reaching the conclusion that Christianity itself, in all its various iterations, was the product of our widely attested tendency to cling to our deeply held beliefs when they come into conflict with reality, rationalizing away the conflict instead of letting go.
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Can’t speak for the rest of you, but I’m pretty damn sure I’m a non-resistant non-believer.
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@potentialtheism
This is actually embarrassing for apologetics, because it so candidly illustrates how that industry cares more about finding the cheap rhetorical advantage in the sport of debate than actually gaining expertise in the field they’re debating.
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How the Qumran War Scroll can help us understand Jesus’ stance on violence and why it’s not the same as modern pacifism:
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Just finished writing the script for my next video, on the nature of Paul’s conversion experience and why it makes me doubt the resurrection. Hopefully I’ll get it recorded in the next day or two!
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Christianity: blaming sincere unbelievers for the failure of their supposedly all-powerful, all-loving God to make himself known for 2,000 years and counting.
It’s not that there’s not enough evidence that God is real...it’s that we suppress the evidence.
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The “group hallucinations don’t happen” meme is a red herring. By focusing on whether it’s possible for multiple people to share the same hallucination, apologists take for granted that the disciples did in fact all see the exact same thing, which goes far behind the evidence.
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