Roofing SMB Guy
@Ladder_Larry_
Followers
959
Following
657
Media
11
Statuses
436
Former corporate guy turned searcher and now SMB residential roofing company owner. On the acquisition and dealmaking path. SBA, search, roofing, SMBs, ETA.
Eastern Seaboard, USA
Joined July 2023
Don't wanna be here?
Send us removal request.
Explore trending content on Musk Viewer
Haitian
• 593459 Tweets
Springfield
• 427110 Tweets
Labour
• 373783 Tweets
Yunes
• 242065 Tweets
Argentina
• 225648 Tweets
Colombia
• 203286 Tweets
Morena
• 202474 Tweets
PS5 Pro
• 188817 Tweets
Senado
• 181133 Tweets
PlayStation
• 144481 Tweets
Anna
• 134947 Tweets
Sony
• 134683 Tweets
England
• 117094 Tweets
CONGRATULATIONS BTS
• 88669 Tweets
Nintendo
• 74282 Tweets
Tony
• 73586 Tweets
#الكويت_العراق
• 64390 Tweets
バーレーン
• 51105 Tweets
Swalwell
• 50858 Tweets
Marko Cortés
• 26676 Tweets
#TemptationIsland
• 26417 Tweets
Finland
• 23330 Tweets
Trent
• 22878 Tweets
Lola
• 22589 Tweets
Barranquilla
• 20277 Tweets
Fang Fang
• 16938 Tweets
اليابان
• 16887 Tweets
Dave Grohl
• 16393 Tweets
Bernstein
• 15572 Tweets
Harry Kane
• 15265 Tweets
Adult Content
• 15223 Tweets
#KohLanta
• 14392 Tweets
Alfred
• 11673 Tweets
De Ligt
• 10946 Tweets
#NEDGER
• 10261 Tweets
Pinned Tweet
Roofing is the best home services business. Here's why
Necessity: A roof is essential for the protection and integrity of a home. It safeguards against rain, snow, wind, and the elements. When roofs leak or deteriorate, homeowners prioritize these repairs. When they don't there
17
7
43
If you, like me, are someone with no experience in the trades, who took out a massive PG'ed loan to manage subcontractors & hourly employees,
we are in unchartered territory.
Our grand experiment may work & we might build huge value, but this is all pretty untested.
Onward!
22
2
60
In 2020 the SBA (Small Business Administration) surveyed SMB owners and determined that the average SMB owner takes home a little more than $62,000 in salary.
That's a lot of work and a lot of risk for so little.
I'm an SMB fan(!), but please know what you're getting into.
22
3
44
Roofing is a lot more recession-resistant than most other homeservices businesses.
When it's ripped off or a tree falls through it or it has water damage or it just leeks, you have to replace it.
You can't wait for better economic times.
5
1
24
It's nice to meet you all!
I've added 260 new followers in the past 36 hours. It'd be amazing to break 500 followers today!
I tweet about roofing, being a franchisee, owning a homeservices business, PG'ing an SBA loan, managing subs & employees and making it through the day!
4
1
21
Yvette did a great job of outlining why acquiring a business is better than starting one.
I was a searcher who acquired one! I will acquire more!
Now let me tell you why starting a business might be better:
1. Immediate debt - from day one with no experience with the business
Acquiring > starting a business. Why? Quick stats
1. Immediate cash flow - can buy a stream of existing cash flows
3
0
3
4
2
19
Before I bought a roofing company I knew what 2 of these terms means and what 4 of them kinda meant.
My vocab list has seriously expanded in the past 3 months!
Bargeboard: A board that is fastened to the projecting gables of a roof to give them a finished appearance and to
2
2
16
Can you run a homeservices SMB really well if you've never personally performed the main service your SMB offers?
Meaning can you run a plumbing company if you can't do any plumbing?
21
0
15
Someone asked why many of us prefer to be anonymous on Twitter.
This is a good list.
#3
is review bombing. You post a tweet people disagree with and you wake up with 1.5 less stars on Google the next day.
@Ladder_Larry_
@mikemcln
@SamtLeslie
I also choose to stay anonymous for several reasons:
1- if I ever post financials I don’t care to have family, friends and the whole world see
2- employees like you said
3- risk of crazy internet people leaving bad reviews on google because they don’t like my takes
1
0
4
5
1
16
Turn Worker's Comp Premiums From A Cost Center To A Profit Center
Or Why Workers Comp Insurance Has a PR Problem
The Unsung Heroes of the Skyline: The Crucial Importance of Workers' Comp in Roofing
Margins!
Every business owner wants margins and roofers can increase their
3
3
14
@SMB_Attorney
I would say this:
If you're unemployable or if you can't see yourself working a good job another day or if you're not smart enough to start an SMB or to run an online business (all apply to me), and you have no other prospects, building or buying an SMB might be for you.
I'd
1
1
11
If you did buy or start an SMB, follow Roger. He's the most practical CPA tweeting on X.
Double entry accounting is undefeated.
If you want inflate one number, an offsetting adjustment must also exist.
From Enron to F T X, this is how forensic accountants reverse engineer frauds.
A few examples:
Want to make revenue higher? Okay, but your accounts receivable will
62
125
1K
2
0
12
Roofing is seen as a hairy business.
It's high-ticket, but it's dangerous and has workers' comp exposure and requires equipment and trained staff.
That's why there's a lot less competition for it than plumbing or HVAC companies.
3
0
8
We own a roofing business.
But we don't do any of the work.
We're a franchisee of a marketing company.
And by the end of November we'll sell 100 jobs.
5
1
9
If you run an SMB, especially one that you borrowed to buy, then for the next 10 years your lawyer, accountant, tax advisor and the civil engineer who comes out to tell you 'the foundation on the warehouse needs shoring up' will take home more money each month than you.
3
0
8
"We branded office subleases and they bought it hook line and sinker. Zell is gone now so we're free to brand and platform housing too!"
2
0
8
@SMB_Attorney
Statistically, you will lose it all.
That's the reality. The math.
We didn't "struggle with it", we recognized it as false and engagement bait.
It's false at best.
2
0
7
I keep telling you that what we do is high risk and potentially high reward.
It's not a given. It's not a normal path with no risk.
Want to turn $100k into $5mm in enterprise value in year 3? You're entering into a very lucrative and very risky trade.
Spoke with a bankruptcy attorney friend today:
“I’m flooded with SBA and small EIDL loan bankruptcies this past month.”
Cracks are showing.
56
50
623
2
1
6
Roofing companies are being slept on by the ETA crowd because they're perceived as seasonal, dangerous, low-paid work.
That's a big mistake.
First of all, we're one of the few homeservices business that is B2B more than B2C because of who the payer is.
And that impacts
5
0
6
Roofing is B2B.
All roofing - residential and commercial.
The payer is either an insurance company or a GC.
2
0
5
@MarginCFO
It's the lenders and the brokers, but it's mind blowing that it's the lawyers as well.
2
0
6
I believe a lot of home service companies will fail because homeowners will not be able to afford them.
Anything that can be deferred or done by the occupants or owners will struggle.
Think most landscaping tasks, gutter cleaning, power washing.
Enter roofing.
1
0
5
@LeveredBoy
@lawyer4SMBs
@SMB_Attorney
Absolutely. There are a lot of reasons to buy a business, but it's not money, not if you had a good high-paying job.
1
0
6
Great tweet.
It reminds me of this:
"How do you beat a lie detector?"
Easy!
Tell the truth.
If your first question in your DM to me is how to skirt the SBA’s PG requirement, keeping your W-2 job is likely your best course of action.
3
0
13
0
1
5
This is our whole model.
We're a sales and marketing business in the roofing space.
Just like a lot of cleaning companies that sell and organize work for subcontractors.
Our garage upgrade business is really a sales and marketing business in the garage space.
Look for other boring businesses that have a low technical barrier and an old owner and you could crush with some simple marketing.
1
0
3
1
0
5
@SMB_Attorney
@SteveWiesnerSMB
Possible. I'll give you that.
Do you have data that says probable? There's no 20-50 year studies that showcase the ETA/searcher model works long-term. SMB owners make much less than lower corporate execs.
I'm in this, don't get me wrong. But I'm assuming 90% of new buyers will
0
0
5
Uber doesn't have any cabs.
Airbnb doesn't have any guest rooms.
Instacart doesn't have any grocery stores.
We don't have any physical roofing labor. And do very well.
1
0
4
Commercial and residential roofing are two, completely different worlds.
2
0
4
@SteveWiesnerSMB
@LeveredBoy
@lawyer4SMBs
@SMB_Attorney
And this is a healthy approach to this game.
I wish you all the luck in the world.
0
0
3
@raine_street
There's a lot more to this than meets the eye.
Qualified labor costs more than a front-end programmer overseas. Huge $$$.
In many other Western countries you would do this work yourself, with your brother/cousins/friends.
If they delivered this right, it'd be 4x the price.
1
0
2
@DBarnettMoncton
ABSOLUTELY
@SMB_Attorney
told me today that repayment rates are over 90%. Of course they are if you PG, that's understandable. And you now have no credit, no income and no assets because you sold them to pay off the loan.
Why weren't people buying SMBs in the 1990's? Because
1
0
4
@lawyer4SMBs
@SMB_Attorney
Most of the companies you guys are helping to close on will have ZERO EV in 2035. That's just math. They'll be decent jobs for a while. 10% might sell for more than the purchase price. The opportunity cost for serious players is amazing. In my case, this is the best I could do.
0
0
3
If you follow me
@ladder_larry_
this is what you'll learn from me:
1. My daily trials & tribulation of running a roofing company (brokerage)
2. The experience of a homeservices franchisee
3. Managing dozens of commission-based & hourly workers
4. SBA/SMB funding
Follow along.
2
1
4
@STLChrisH
This is largely why we purchased a roofing company in SC.
Less sophisticated competition, more financing friction and lots of upside doing the absolute basics.
0
0
3
Homeservices, be extremely congizant of your pricing as we head into the recession.
0
0
3
@ThinkAppraiser
1. What did he sacrifice to make his fortune?
2. How often do his kids call him?
3. Does his wife look at him like she did in the first months they met?
4. Is he anxious or does he 'work like a lion'
1
0
3
@JamesonCamp
@jimmymoncrief
@agazdecki
I think it's the fastest, biggest play on a risk-adjusted basis.
0
0
3
@Bob06649922
@AwayConsultant
@constantraise
@SBA_Matthias
People like
@SBA_Matthias
are legal sellers.
It's searchers that need to take responsibility for their actions and understand that they have consequences.
Unless you want a nanny state in which SBA_M is reponsible for you?
2
0
3
If you're buying an SMB in the trades with an SBA loan I've done it - so follow me.
If you're buying a roofing company I've done it - so follow me.
If you're operating a roofing company I'm doing that now - so follow me.
That's the pitch.
1
1
3
@MFRoadmap
@BednarikMatt
Loans started drying up in early 2007. Prices didn't come back till 2014.
1
0
1
Shawn is my spirit animal on Twitter. He's the guy I want to be when I grow up. His story and his life is absolutely amazing!
(and he took down roofs and we're putting them back up).
What do you actually do: Most asked question I get
I move with the market
From 1998-2017 I owned a roof removal company
That was our constant/steady income over 20 years
We bought our 1st house in 2000 - a full gut fixer
Purchased for $190k sold for $360k in 24 months - we
58
23
615
0
0
3
@lawyer4SMBs
That's not at all what I wrote. I wrote about the right reasons for getting into ETA/SBA/SMB.
There are a lot of great employable people buying SMBs and I believe they're making a mistake. They'll earn less than at their jobs, especially on a risk adjusted basis. They're running
1
0
2
@jimmymoncrief
I don't remember who it was, maybe one of the pilot/pilot media guys(?) who bought a small website from
@agazdecki
and they were building it with their kids.
I'm not sure
@JamesonCamp
would agree, but I'd buy a website to flip.
2
0
3
Residential roofing is mostly a B2B business.
If you know you know.
1
0
2
@MilesAbound
Sometimes. And often they mortgage homes to cover shortfalls and work 12 hour shift unpaid because there isn't enough money in the company account.
1
0
3
@SteveWiesnerSMB
This is great!
I reread the tweet a couple of times and finally understood why Eric
@SMB_Attorney
is right!!!
My son **could** play in the NBA!!! So exciting!
1
0
3
Roofing.
It's very early in terms of rolling up roofing companies.
Hot industries for acquisitions seem to come in waves: HVAC, plumbing, dentistry, pest control.
What’s next for multiples going up? Roofing, drug testing, tree services, accounting?
27
2
56
0
0
2
There's going to be a lot of wonky things going on with SMB M&A in the next 5 years.
Here are some of the things I believe will happen:
1. There will be more "SMB TikTok coaches" than SMB CEOs
2. The two best paid jobs in America in 2027 will be an SMB CEO-for-hire and CEOs of
5
0
1
@TKyle
@JulieChangRE
So you're dragging in cat pee and dog poop and human feces and tar and oil and gasoline from the outside and putting it on the hardwoods for them to touch and then put in their mouths... oh boy!
Kids are dirty, but it's not the same bacteria, not the same strains at all.
0
0
1
@WNY_SMB
@lawyer4SMBs
@millerck1225
I promise you that the very best SMBs out there are not being sold to buyers who don't have any experience in the particular field, who've never run an SMB before or who have never worked in homeservices before.
1
0
1
2
0
2
Mark my words:
Roofing will be the biggest SMB homeservices trend in the next 60 months.
2
0
2
@riskconsultguy
A very successful SMB buyer I know went to work in the industry he later bought in 2 years before the acquisition to learn the trade and build a reputation.
Why wouldn't people not hate you if you don't have experience in that business?
1
0
2
@JesseTinsley
@constantraise
a) as a buyer you are qualified like almost no other SMB buyer meaning you have experience and money. Most SMB buyers have neither.
b) because you are experienced and have money you are offered terms that are reasonable; unreasonable buyers are not offered reasonable terms
c)
1
0
1
@jimmymoncrief
Honest answer:
I'm comfortable everywhere I am. Really.
There's almost no delate for me between places, I'm so relaxed and in tune with myself.
Weird answer? Maybe. But I can sit anywhere.
0
0
2
@LeveredBoy
@SMB_Attorney
@DBarnettMoncton
We own a franchise and sub out work so we bought, but not a full legacy SMB.
1
0
2
@leah_walczak
@Eli_Albrecht
There are far more investors than operators who want to buy these businesses. The 70% comes mainly from a balanced market - you can find a hundred investors for every good SMB with a great operator.
1
0
3
@AdamLehman
@MatznerJon
Yup.
@davidchang
did the same thing in essence. Studied religion, then did food, now all in on media.
0
0
2
@tariqrasheed74
@girdley
People bought businesses with personal guarantees and took out loans with PGs that they do not know how to operate and make successful.
0
0
2
@MatznerJon
Absolutely.
Ony new money on the come up obsesses over money.
Understandable, but also easily distinguishable from true wealth.
0
0
1
0
0
2
@MattPaulsonSD
Great post Matt! Absolutely, even if you got into the business via acquisitions you need to spend time doing the actual work to know what it's all about, to go in and pick up slack when needed and to earn the respect of your team.
0
0
2
@patrickdichter
@MatznerJon
@joshuamschultz
@RegZeller
They're making a market (growing the pie). Foundries, because of the logistics and capital requirements, are not winner-takes-all markets.
Reg and Joshua are making a bigger market for more players to be in.
0
0
2
@RegZeller
@SteveWiesnerSMB
Hahaha! So true!
SMBs love to do the same with the idea of franchising. Starts one business, the business isn't good yet and doesn't make money, and the instinct is to franchise right away lol.
0
0
2
@MySBAPro
@FranchiseMnA
There is zero correlation between a long and prosperous life and drinking or not drinking. Zero. And I don't drink.
0
0
2
@mikemcln
There's a lot of SMB owners who disclosed a lot about their companies on here and had pushback from their employees.
@SamtLeslie
is someone who had an amazing series daily about his business but it was too much disclosure AFAIK.
1
0
2
@robdog369
@ConnorAbene
I wrote this as a joke so I'm happy to see two comedians on here :)
Sell To The Vests!
0
0
2
@raine_street
Yeah. This is a structural issue. We're seeing it resturants too and many other businesses.
They can't afford to do the service for you at any reasonable price that you could carry. This is going to have huge ripple effects.
0
0
2
1
0
2
@WeddingVenueGuy
@profithuntercfo
Yeah, these guys are resourceful. They probably upsell shaving creams/gels and so on and so forth. I absolutely buy into how much he's making. And he's got depreciation on the building so he's tax efficient too!
0
0
2
@homeservguy
In my book you are. All elders deserve respect. Elders (45+) deserve accomodation. They receive it everywhere else. We're the only country in the world where a joke like "Okay Boomer" would fly. In Germany, Mexico, South Korea and Russia you'd get your teeth knocked out for it.
0
0
2
Who's doing this but for SMBs? - a quick story:
Back when the Big Four Audit companies ruled the Earth (Andersen, KPMG, Deloitte & PwC), they'd make their fees on audit and tax advisory,
but they'd make their big bucks on management consulting - helping big companies get
1
0
1
@freeconlon
@AmandaMGoetz
Yes, that's why he spends money on security; limits how he physically moves in the world and takes enormous other precautions that I'd never want to take. Plus he doesn't have a family.
0
0
2
@LeadershipAcad1
Right now and for the next 36 months the bank (lender) you have is your best bank.
0
0
2
@MatznerJon
Roofing guys will never respect you if you don't work roofs for a while and are ready to help out, even as ad hoc labor when you lose a guy.
0
0
2