Arabelle
@Arabell4401
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Interests: beginning of human life issues, science, nature. At times ‘like’ posts I disagree with to acknowledge the contribution.
World
Joined February 2023
Some claim it’s incorrect to use the term “unborn child”.for the human fetus . However —>. Etymology of ‘CHILD’ is:. Old English cild “fetus, infant, unborn or newly born person”. Related, from root word ->.Old English cildhama "womb," lit. "child-home".
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Women who’ve experienced childbirth —. have any of you NOT had permanent, lifelong damage?.
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It seems some think a human fetus does not have a heartbeat until 18-20 weeks. Where do these ideas come from?.
@TheRyanHamilton And, the law is based on a lie. No “fetal heartbeat can be detected” until there is a heart and it’s not fully formed until 18-20 weeks. That isn’t a heartbeat since that isn’t a heart.
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@theladykatie Did you read about the case in Australia when mention of abortion started a walkout of ~90% staff & students at a Catholic University graduation ceremony?. The invitated speaker mentioned how in his public career he’d advocated against abortion which has killed more than in WWII.
90% of attendees walk out at Catholic Uni graduation ceremony. For any interested in the recent case of the walk out mid-ceremony, here’s a link to the offending speech. NB: people started walking out before IVF & marriage were mentioned. (Continued).
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Astounding!. Pro-choice advocates believe a D&C, performed days after the birth of a full term healthy baby, is called an abortion:
This is what abortion advocacy has done for women. Many believe:. ▪︎ D&C is equivalent to abortion. ▪︎ Every miscarriage requires an immediate D&C or they will die. ▪︎ Every pregnancy complication requires abortion or they will die. ▪︎ Every pregnancy is life-threatening.
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@KikaArtukovic I think about that often — that those who survive with particular traits are affected profoundly by the elimination of nearly all others like themselves.
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Question for Pro-life women: . Is it important to you to have the choice of pro-life OB-GYN doctors for your care during pregnancy & delivery?.
@bi02247255 @LindyJaneGould1 @Cupcakes_n_Rap You’re against abortion & supposed to be a women’s doctor so yes that makes you a monster.
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@dsalmeron1 @BumpstockBarbie 1/2.There is a glaring piece of misinformation in that *opinion* piece (i.e. the excerpt below). Pregnancy is NOT caused by a pathogen . No EXTERNAL organism invades the maternal body — . If the author means sperm, this is not an organism . If the author means the embryo, .….
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Sure, they experienced an abortion- a spontaneous abortion. Remember the codes you spoke about?. Medically the treatment is coded 59812 Treatment OF incomplete abortion, completed surgically . Medical treatment is OF the spontaneous abortion - the treatment is not the abortion
Dear ProLifers, If you had a D&C procedure, because of an incomplete miscarriage, I hate to break it to you… but technically, medically, you had an ABORTION. Have a great day. Love, .Ryan . PS. If you’re going to keep attacking me, at least try to spell “feetus” correctly 🤦🏻♂️.
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The objection pro-lifers have is to *causing* a human death. No pro-lifer ‘flips out about aborting a deceased fetus’. Either this person, after years of pro-choice advocacy, is not capable of understanding the abortion debate or is lying.
It’s so wild to me when anti choicers flip out about aborting a deceased fetus. They scream and cry about dismemberment and all that. Like….they do realize we cremate bodies of humans, right? . In some cases, folks donate their bodies to science and even worse is done.
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@Prolife_Sam Excellent post Samantha. Thanks for the effort. I’ve found that strangely few seem aware of expectant management.
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“In 1961, Catholic convert Peter Benenson founded Amnesty International to challenge the conscience of the world on human rights”. Has Amnesty betrayed the founder’s values by promoting widespread abortion availability?.
Access to abortion is healthcare. Healthcare is a human right.
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@SpiritedSparr0w Of these 96% who choose abortion for life limiting fetal conditions one wonders how many are influenced by others towards termination. Overall, in one study (though not specifically about only fetal health conditions), only 1/3 were positive about the abortion:.
Only one third of women who aborted described their abortions as wanted and consistent with their values and preferences. Full study here:
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@dsalmeron1 @BumpstockBarbie 2/2. The embryo does not ‘invade’ from an *external* source. The embryo begins internally, i.e. within the maternal body.
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Some statements leave one almost lost for words. Below is one from a .pro-choice proponent on the value of the human fetus late in pregnancy (i.e. capable of being born alive):
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@1jameswho @MountainFiain @ShevaStan “Tell me what recognizable church offers funerals and burial of fetuses.”. I answered that in a post a moment ago. The Catholic Church will bury miscarried fetuses ⬇️.
@hage8675309 @MountainFiain @1jameswho @ShevaStan 1/2. Amazing how confidently some others put out misinformation! . Regarding Catholic funerals - there’s information re. “Prayers and Funeral Rites After Miscarriage or Stillbirth”. (Baptism next post).
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@dsalmeron1 @BumpstockBarbie Thank you. It’s best to link articles when first posted. The two authors are from a university philosophy department. I doubt they have a medical or biological sciences background. You can have the last word for now. Remember - reading comprehension matters.
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@dsalmeron1 @BumpstockBarbie Your reading comprehension is not good. Sperm is not an external *organism*. The opinion piece used the word *organism*. No external organism invades the maternal body as claimed by the opinion piece you posted. ( BTW it’s best to supply a link or source for articles you post).
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@dsalmeron1 @BumpstockBarbie A sperm is a cell of the paternal body. A sperm is not an organism. A sperm is never defined as ‘half an embryo’. In academic articles precision is usually important. Please post the link to the article- I’d like to see the profession of the author(s).
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Women — does it bother you when men have views on abortion?. [ IMO I’m appreciative of men who are respectful of all human life & who oppose elective abortion for this reason ].
@DefAMustRead Can I ask you a question? Does it bother women when men have views on abortion?. I've always, always been vehemently opposed to it (it's straight up murder in my view) but I'm always a bit anxious speaking my mind on it because I'm male and there is a sense of 'is it my place?'.
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An example of dehumanisation?. “a fetus is no more a human than is a teratoma”. Yes or No? . Consider this — the day before your birth you were a fetus.
Oh, good grief, a fetus is no more a human than is a teratoma. And me being board certified is not remotely the same as the government telling me what procedures I can and cannot perform in the best interests of my patient.
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@MalaMoragain @DrCalumMiller She sent her child to a Catholic school. The Archbishop is stating standard Catholic teachings in his statement. Too many send children to Catholic schools solely for the high quality of education offered, then are offended when they encounter Catholicism . Here’s her account.
As a parent of a child in a Catholic School, I was disgusted to receive this letter that condemns and discriminates against so many in my community. Read more 👉 #politas
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@hotsauced007 I quoted from a post claiming childbirth “will cause permanent, lifelong damage”. Without doubt some women do suffer lifelong serious damage but I don’t believe this is anywhere near be a majority. The posts in this thread are reassuring in that regard.
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Is this true?.
@JeffChurchill @Arabell440 @AnaLeticia_2015 @bvoorhis @Prolife_Sam A human embryo is not a living human being.
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@Prolife_Sam @mustang_ali2 When something is overheard a misunderstanding could very easily occur.
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@DrCalumMiller @elonmusk @JDVance If you remember 10 yrs ago France banned the video ‘Dear Future Mum’ from television in France. This video gave a positive view of children with Down’s S. The censors stated it might trouble the consciences of those who had terminated a pregnancy b/c of a DS diagnosis . 1/2
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90% of attendees walk out at Catholic Uni graduation ceremony. For any interested in the recent case of the walk out mid-ceremony, here’s a link to the offending speech. NB: people started walking out before IVF & marriage were mentioned. (Continued).
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Where does this misinformation come from?
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@TheRyanHamilton @RoyLuis189407 Research clearly shows the coding is WORDED DIFFERENTLY for spontaneous abortion & induced abortion. The D&C is treatment OF the spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) which has already occurred . There can’t be TWO abortions for the 1 pregnancy. This is clear in the wording.
Another useful link. Note treatment follows the incomplete abortion. The D&C itself is not the abortion.
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Seeing this more often:. “ANY procedure that ends a pregnancy is an abortion”
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@brandinedelroy2 Yes, for some. I’ve experienced that. There are many posting saying they’ve had no long term damage. I posted the question as someone had claimed all women sustain long term damage.
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@Robjbe @theladykatie @DermotKearney3 That said - the people in Katie’s Church should have accepted the Church’s teachings — they were at Mass & had presumably attended communion.
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I consider it simply an ordinary term to use for human beings before birth.
People who use the term unborn baby/child are just trying to emotionally manipulate with their argument. That’s all they have.
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Dear pro-life. Please thoroughly check sources before posting . The widespread video of an abortion is a computer generated image from the movie Unplanned. (Continued, next post) .
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I see this often - the denigration of those conceived through rape:.
@realDailyTrite @FAFOresistance @cbouzy There is nothing immoral about abortion, especially if it's a rape-baby. Get over your self righteous twaddle.
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@LilaGraceRose 1/2.The video is computer generated imagery (CGI). It’s from the movie Unplanned (about Abby Johnson leaving Planned Parenthood to become a pro-life activist). Johnson stated “this was a CGI recreation and NOT footage from a real abortion. But it sure looks like what I saw” ⬇️.
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@annamlulis There is a gofundme for Ivy:. “Hey, what's up! I wanted to let you know about baby Ivy, who’s fighting hard against Trisomy 18 and could really use our help”.
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1/2. 10 years ago this video was censored by The French Broadcasting Authority. Reason: The message was “disturbing to the conscience of women who, in accordance with the law, had made different personal life choices”.
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@DrCalumMiller @kevinmyoung That photo is the aftermath of an aspiration abortion (it states this on the website which is the source of the photo). There is no way an intact embryo will be present after having been sucked through a narrow cannula. It’s soft body would be shredded, i.e. there would be no ⬇️.
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Not only are fetuses non-living according some pro-choice advocates . — so are premature babies who cannot breathe unaided!. Twice on X I’ve noticed people with biology degrees put forward this ‘fetus as non-living’ viewpoint.
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Again Ryan claims a person who’s had a D&C for a spontaneous abortion has had an abortion. It’s true - they had a miscarriage = spontaneous ab . He seems to believe the D&C treatment IS the abortion, whereas it is treatment OF the abortion which has already occurred.
Dear ProLifers, I know you're angry with me. Just because you don't like the word "ABORTION" doesn't mean you didn't have one. If you had an incomplete miscarriage, & had a D&C performed, you had an abortion. Your medical record says "abortion". If the hospital sent any
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Miscarriage / D&C question . Are there any women reading this who live in ‘anti-abortion’ states, e.g. Texas, who’ve been treated with a D&C for miscarriage care?. This applies to after laws against abortion were introduced. Was there any problem in getting this care?.
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Could anyone point to legislation stating specific drugs are banned because these drugs can also be used for induced abortion?. It would be good to see the exact wording of the legislation.
@TheRyanHamilton @lizziepresser @propublica YES IT DOES. TX banned 2 drugs - misoprostol and mifepristone used for miscarriage. also, the procedure for removing fetal tissue is considered an abortion procedure. so yes, it does.
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Available as pdf:. Human Embryos are Human Beings: a Scientific and Philosophical Case. by philosopher Samuel Condic and neurobiologist Maureen Condic. It’s a rather expensive book so I was happy to find a free pdf version .
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Yet two academics wrote a paper in a professional journal on exactly this topic. It received widespread comment.
Can we take a moment to acknowledge the term “after birth abortion”? .Use your brain, & REALLY think about it. Now, say it slowly: .AFTER. BIRTH. ABORTION. If you still think those words makes sense together, look in the mirror & say these words: I. AM. AN. IDIOT. 🤦🏻♂️🤬.
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@TheRyanHamilton I’ve never avoided the word ‘abortion’. It’s important to look at the medical codes for abortion in *context*. Those for treatment of a spontaneous abortion are worded very differently to those for induced abortions. Read my reply to the video where you read out those codes ⬇️.
Sure, they experienced an abortion- a spontaneous abortion. Remember the codes you spoke about?. Medically the treatment is coded 59812 Treatment OF incomplete abortion, completed surgically . Medical treatment is OF the spontaneous abortion - the treatment is not the abortion
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@HaydenRhodea A well known argument against abortion in philosophical circles was by an atheist. This was Don Marquis .
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This is correct. There is no baby in the right hand photo - there are washed gestational sacs after aspiration abortions. (Source- next post).
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@Shackled2R @Advo_Katy @HeatherOscarez @QtheImposter Yes, a human being! See Prof Peter Singer in the following quote. Singer is a world renowned pro-choice philosopher:
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@1jameswho @partylike1399 @padrebrendon @JayBienvenu So you have been a liar all along & never did attend seminary. In that case you’ve been an incredibly bad faith actor.
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“Removing contents of the miscarried pregnancy can be done via abortion, champ”. Removing the contents left after a spontaneous abortion (miscarriage) can be done via another abortion?. Two abortions for the one pregnancy? Really! . (The spontaneous abortion was the fetal death).
Removing the contents of the miscarried pregnancy can be done via abortion, champ.
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@Prolife_Sam Similarly in posts discussing Preterm Premature Rupture of Membranes (PPROM) you see people assume the woman is at immediate risk of sepsis & that abortion or early induction should occur ASAP. The following shows this is not necessarily the case:.
PPROM is not necessarily a death sentence for the baby and mothers continue their pregnancies every day when they’ve had a very early PPROM and can deliver weeks to months later. That’s called expectant management.
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D&C itself is not an abortion in the case of treatment OF a miscarriage (i.e. incomplete spontaneous abortion.). It is treatment OF an abortion (i.e. spontaneous ab. = miscarriage) which has already occurred.
Damn. The Vice President talking about us during her speech has unleashed the #ProLife crazies! .Allow me to double down on a few things:. ABORTION IS HEALTHCARE!.THE LAW IS UNCLEAR!.A D&C FOR IN INCOMPLETE MISCARRIAGE IS STILL AN ABORTION!. Happy Saturday.💙 #ReproductiveRights.
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@GrumpyOleDave @MalaMoragain @DrCalumMiller 1/2.Have you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church? . It was published to be “a sure norm for teaching the faith" —Pope St John Paul II. Look up any of the subjects in the Catechism & these will correspond with those things written by Archbishop Porteous. Link next ⬇️.
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@RightReason_NZ Those who are ‘pro-choice’ regarding abortion often object strongly to others using the word ‘baby’ for prenatal life! . Oddly they’re not pro-choice about language use!.
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@AnneMarieBea17 @DrCalumMiller If he’s lying about being a Dr. I suggest you contact the publisher of the journal where they have him listed as “a practicing medical doctor in the UK.”. Link provided for you.
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@Catholic4Choice Most of these are probably Catholic in name only & not immersed in the sacramental/communal life of the Church. For example, how many Catholic4Choice members attend weekly Mass?.
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@PocoSobre Interesting that a renowned pro-choice (atheist) philosopher disagrees. He names the embryo both a living organism & a human being:
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@BumpstockBarbie It is true the early embryo has no organs, but it is an organism. e.g. zygote is unicellular organism. Still a human being:
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@Dantheman2027 @BumpstockBarbie @randomnumber333 They are named unborn children in thousands of academic science journals . E.g.
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“NOTHING of value is lost in abortion or gained in birth”. I wonder how many think this way?.
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@1jameswho @mattbramanti @padrebrendon @JayBienvenu Hospitals do release fetal remains to patients for burial. See here:.
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@DrCalumMiller @kevinmyoung (Continued from above). …intact embryo to be seen, even if it truely is in the photo.
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@secularprolife @acog Contrast that with the realistic diagrams, as patient information, provided by a chain of hospitals operating in India 🇮🇳:.
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Can anyone give an example of legislation stating D&C procedures are ILLEGAL when a living embryo/fetus is NOT involved?.
A miscarriage is an “involuntary abortion”. Problem is GOP didn’t just outlaw abortion… they made dilation & curetagge (D&C) illegal. This is a simple, LIFE SAVING procedure women NEED 4 reproductive health. It’s not done just 2 terminate pregnancy. D&C IS LIFE SAVING PROCEDURE!.
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@belinduhpyne That doesn’t seem correct because the term unborn child is widely used in academic journals. In these journal articles it’s a descriptive term for a human being at a certain stage of development. Try a search using Google Scholar or similar:
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@Lipstick_Mystic @BexWords @Prolife_Texan__ “Cath hospitals in Texas won’t perform life saving D&C to scrape out dead tissue”. How about you ask the Texas Cath Bishops who control the hospitals’ policy?. “Women …who have lost or are in the process of losing their unborn babies, should not ever experience a delay in care”
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If you lived in a country where euthanasia of those with severe cognitive impairment (e.g. I.Q. below 40) was accepted & widespread would you say those Catholics opposing this ‘have no right to impose our religion to everyone’?
@CtClassical83 Your interpretation is not canon Law. We, as Christians, have no right to impose our religion to everyone.
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Could some allay this person’s fear?. Life saving treatment of miscarriage, ectopic pregnancy, etc is NOT illegal in those states with elective abortion bans. Further information & examples of care provided would be good.
@HayworthAudrey I’m so tired of trying to explain this to my R family members. I’ve tried to paint the picture for them: If I met “Mr. Right” tomorrow & we wanted to start a family, we’d have to leave the state. Complications can happen. If I stay, I could die or go to jail. Which do you prefer?.
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Could someone provide a case where there has been a serious moral objection to D&C treatment of miscarriage (spontaneous abortion)?. N.B. The fetus is already deceased. I’ve not seen a moral objection in bioethics literature.
A moral objection to performing a d&c when the pregnancy has already ended (no fetal heartbeat) is really something.
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@secularprolife I agree with the opposing side that mother’s lives matter very much. I want to see excellent health care available for pregnant women & new mothers . This should be obvious as the pro-life position is based on the premise all life is valuable from conception to death.
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@DeniseSontag @MrPepperPig @RealHousewifeMi @realDonaldTrump Why do you continue to post this when it has been proven to be wrong?. Doesn’t honestly matter you?.
@DeniseSontag @BumpstockBarbie Why do you make things up?. The Catholic Church will NOT BAPTISE any DEAD person, which includes stillborns. The Church WILL baptise a fetus born ALIVE, even after an abortion. The Cath C provides funerals for stillborns & miscarried babies:.
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Abortion proposal at 35 weeks resulted in PTSD for mother (Australia) . This option hadn’t entered her mind until (to her shock) suggested by hospital social worker. Baby had dwarfism with no other health issues via @YouTube.
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@Robjbe @theladykatie @DermotKearney3 I’m not denying it. I’m saying that *besides that* there are secular reasons abortion is wrong. One cannot effectively use religious arguments in the public sphere, where most are not religious, to influence legislation to protect unborn life. Use logic & philosophy.
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1/2.Some Asian abortion providers do not sanitise descriptions of the procedure. Contrast this with info often seen here! . They’re upfront - even showing diagrams of fetal limbs being pulled off in D&E procedures. Here we see info regarding medical ab. & a photo of the embryo:
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The state of Catholic tertiary education in Australia. Hundreds of staff, students & family members walk out of graduation ceremony when speaker criticises abortion.
Hundreds of staff, students and their families have walked out of a graduation ceremony at the Australian Catholic University after former Labor powerbroker Joe de Bruyn began spouting Catholic views on abortion and gay marriage.
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@FionnMcCreigh @KikaArtukovic That’s the USA!. Yet we have the following situation in Iceland, & I believe it’s similar in some other European countries.
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Two more doctors suspended following investigation into Melbourne woman Harjit Kaur's death after abortion - ABC News
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@amnesty In 1961 Catholic convert Peter Benenson founded Amnesty International to challenge the conscience of the world on human rights. Amnesty has betrayed the founder’s values by promoting widespread abortion availability.
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@JessicaValenti Probably they’d recommend early induction pre viability, believing that this is not morally the same as intending the death of the fetus. You’ve not been a reliable information source in the past - e.g. stating empty gestational sacs represent a true picture of prenatal life:.
@JessicaValenti You’ve pushed this debunked lie many times already only to get ratioed by biology each time. This is an empty sac that has been cleaned out after the unborn human has been removed. Even those who took the pic you’re posting admitted this.
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1/x. Excellent Source of Information on Early Human Development -> . Embryology course - University of New South Wales, Australia . E.g. Pregnancy duration 10 wks (GA).8 weeks after fertilisation (age of embryo).Size 0.7 to 0.9 inches
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@DrCalumMiller Yet WHO guidelines propose that conscientious objection may become indefensible if it hinders.‘access to quality abortion care’. At the same time it recommends there be no gestational age or other limits on abortion availability.
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Photos from a journal article of intact embryos at the same stage of purported embryos in the Petri dish photo.
@vixmcintyre @AnneMarieBea17 @LiamDan008 1/2.None, but I’m familiar with the biological facts. The following photos are from an academic article on miscarriages. These are embryos at gestational age (pregnancy duration) 7 to 9 weeks:. I’ve shaded out some of the photos. Those shown are: (next post for details. —>
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@hiproprietygirl @TheRyanHamilton Yes, the ignorance is astounding. The word ‘abortion’ is in ‘spontaneous abortion’ (i.e. miscarriage) yet treatment OF a spontaneous abortion is legal everywhere. Catholic hospitals treat spontaneous abortions with D&Cs. It’s obvious to them this is not prohibited.
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There is no way an intact embryo will be present after having been sucked through a narrow cannula in a manual aspiration abortion. Its soft body would be shredded, i.e. there would be no intact embryo to be seen, even if it truely is in the photo.
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“Biology tells us a human conception begins a human life, and simple intuition suggests that human dignity—the intangible value of a person—inheres in all human life. This natural intuition provides the basis for legal policies of non-discrimination—whether by age, etc”. 1/2. ⬇️.
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@theladykatie @DermotKearney3 That’s sad. Religious beliefs! I think it needs to be got across these are not necessarily ‘religious beliefs’ — if they would listen — but they’ve probably already made up their minds on this. Sorry you experienced this. I was shaken by the Catholic Uni incident.
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@TheRyanHamilton 1/x. Seems unfortunately Ryan & his wife weren’t adequately informed of side effects associated with Misoprostol treatment for miscarriage. This is a standard treatment in many places (link). Bleeding can occur for weeks & pain likened to early labour.
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A reminder that first trimester abortion can be fatal even in those states where there’s no legal restrictions on these abortions. This from Australia earlier this year:.
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@hage8675309 @MountainFiain @1jameswho @ShevaStan 1/2. Amazing how confidently some others put out misinformation! . Regarding Catholic funerals - there’s information re. “Prayers and Funeral Rites After Miscarriage or Stillbirth”. (Baptism next post).
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Video clip showing the human embryo’s heart beating at 4 weeks & 4 days after fertilisation - equivalent to 6 weeks pregnant (gestation). (Unfortunately I don’t have the link to the source).
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“Life begins at conception”. An “all nice and rainbows and sunshine” statement . Or . Supported by medical & biological sciences?.
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@theladykatie @DermotKearney3 Could you give an example of the sort of things said to you by those who were negative about your talk? . I believe you, but am curious.
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@DrCalumMiller She claims the medical codes are the same for all procedures done by D&C. They are not. Importantly descriptors for codes involving post-miscarriage care & induced abortion are worded very differently. See chart below ⬇️
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Further note:.‘Incomplete abortion’ in above = spontaneous abortion = MISCARRIAGE (a natural occurrence, not an induced abortion).
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