Kindly #deprescribe -- taper psychiatric drugs
@Altostrata
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Founded 2011. 6,000 case histories of #psychiatric drug #tapering & #withdrawal . Inventor of #Withdrawalology in #deprescribing .
San Francisco, CA
Joined January 2011
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@shvogt
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@markhoro
This video illustrates how too-fast psychotropic withdrawal has a domino effect throughout the nervous system and, consequently, many body systems: It can take a while for all the dominoes to fall, explaining delayed withdrawal symptoms.
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@Jay63104510
@BoudicaThe
@ImmunoFever
@legittreehugger
@angryhacademic
Menstruation is an unusual, weird disease not affecting the primary human, the male.
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What if it turned out widespread prescription of
#antidepressants
& other
#psychiatric
drugs was a gigantic medical mistake, with far more people having bad outcomes than good outcomes, most not having severe mental illness in the first place?
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Just published:
What I have learnt from helping thousands of people taper off antidepressants and other psychotropic medications - Adele Framer, 2021
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FACT: “Chemical imbalance” or "neurotransmitter deficiency theory" was deployed by pharmaceutical companies to advertise their
#psychiatric
psychotropics. Never been scientifically proven, debunked many years ago, still circulating as rumor 20+ years later.
See sources below. /1
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When you meet someone who's a
#psychiatric
treatment disaster case, there's usually a long trail of
#psychiatrists
involved, a chain of specialists who switched the person from drug to drug, added drugs, stopped drugs, etc. This is not unusual, it's what's considered normal care.
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Psychiatry discovers that homelessness is deeply distressing to human beings.
New data demonstrates that the majority of people experiencing homelessness have mental health disorders, with current and lifetime prevalence generally much greater than that observed in general community samples.
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I deeply regret having to say that it will be difficult for people to find a doctor to assist them in gradually tapering off antidepressants & other psychiatric drugs. They simply don't know anything about it, or about withdrawal symptoms, or even adverse effects of those drugs.
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Sinead O'Connor in 2013: "“They are extremely debilitating drugs. Tiring to the extreme. Ironically, extremely depressing. They can cause suicidal or self-harm type thinking. They can mess up your menstrual cycle very badly & cause you to be incapacitated for a week before.""
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@abbrody
@DrGeropsych
Gabapentin (& pregabalin) are considered, wrongly, to be "safe" substitutes for benzos. Now that benzos have rightfully earned a bad reputation, the gabapentinoids have taken their place, though they have similar drawbacks, including physiological dependency incurring withdrawal.
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Hello, doctors. If you prescribe an
#antidepressant
to a healthy working person for ordinary sadness & several years later they are disabled, miserable, "treatment resistant" & scheduled for
#ECT
, YOU are the problem.
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"Most of the respondents for whom benzodiazepines were prescribed (76.2%) stated they had not been informed that [benzos] were indicated for short-term use only & that discontinuation might be difficult."
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It is profoundly disgusting that
#psychiatry
has endorsed & proselytized for long-term psychotropic prescription with no provision or understanding of how to help people go off the drugs. There is no excuse for this. It is medical negligence.
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I expect many people will question the basis for their long-term
#antidepressant
prescriptions now, go to their prescribers for information about how to go off, & get misinformed about tapering, too -- BECAUSE THAT'S ANOTHER AREA WHERE
#PSYCHIATRY
HAS BEEN NEGLIGENT FOR DECADES!
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Despite
#psychiatry
's wriggling, "chemical imbalance" is going into the books as yet another of the specialty's horrible errors, alongside hysteria, lobotomy, pathologizing of homosexuality, etc. Not every
#psychiatrist
believed in those, either, yet patients paid the price.
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Hello, psychiatric prescribers. If you claim you know how to taper psychiatric drugs & you don't see withdrawal symptoms often but you do see "acute relapse" -- you don't know how to taper.
That "acute relapse" is withdrawal. Misdiagnosis of withdrawal as relapse is common.
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So, it seems that doctors think patients injured by psychiatric treatment join angry "antipsychiatry" organizations. No, doctors, they join peer mutual aid groups. FYI all would rather see competent doctors.
PS Injured individuals have plenty of reason to be angry on their own.
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THIS IS NORMAL CARE “…zolpidem (Ambien), clonazepam (Klonopin), diazepam (Valium), fluoxetine (Prozac), lamotrigine (Lamictil), lorazepam (Ativan), mirtazapine (Remeron), quetiapine fumarate (Seroquel) & trazodone”
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'My anti-depressant withdrawal was worse than depression'
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Just as psychiatry will never live down therapeutic hysterectomy, lobotomy, & the pathologizing of homosexuality, it will never live down its shameful denial of psychiatric drug withdrawal syndromes.
Never. Think of these when you insist psychiatry knows all there is to know.
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It takes a psychiatrist, scientist of human thought & emotion, to conclude that confluence of groups of injured patients must be an “anti-psychiatry” conspiracy rather than many individuals spontaneously voicing similar complaints about the poor quality of psychiatric care.
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@justin_garson
Coming full circle to common sense. What a world where 30 years of the influence of biopsychiatry has to be countered by the old-is-new discovery that the reality of bad circumstances leads to feeling badly.
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SSRIs produce sexual dysfunction in >50% of those who take them. What is this fool talking about?
Contrary to fears, the serotonin reuptake inhibitors used to treat depression do not put a damper on romantic love. For more than 15 years, commentators have speculated that selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor (SSRI) use is associated with negative
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It’s obvious that antidepressants narrow emotional range, yet an uproar greeted
@joannamoncrieff
et al. when they stated this in a paper critiquing the serotonin hypothesis last year.
er - the SSRI dampening of emotional reactivity has been shown by v many studies - see this meta analysis
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Isn't Psychiatry for Kids a rather ominous topic?
How about letting kids grow up without seeing hype for your drug-happy medical specialty?
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If doctors haven’t seen it, must be really really really really rare.
10 years ago, doctors were claiming they never see antidepressant withdrawal syndrome. Incidence found to be ~50% of those who go off their drugs.
Do psychiatric prescribers have an attentiveness problem?
PSSD is real…but also really really really really rare, to the point that essentially every doc I’ve talked to has never seen it clinically. It’s always risks benefits, an area we do need to improve on in discussing with patients.
But these headlines? This ain’t it…
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Quetiapine, an antipsychotic that can cause insulin derangement & movement disorders, is now a drug that's good for whatever ails you, PTSD, depression, insomnia, whatever.
Very commonly prescribed as a "shut-up pill" for complainers, troublemakers &, of course, the elderly.
@wendyburn
@Altostrata
@AllenFrancesMD
Quetiapine is so commonly used off-label for veterans w PTSD, many falsely believe it's a PTSD treatment.
This drug features so commonly in the cocktail of drugs involved in veteran suicides & "accidental" deaths, it has a nickname:
"Serokill"
#Serokill
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@melina_manolas
How many lives have SSRIs saved? While their prescription has become more widespread, suicide incidence has increased. If "antidepressants save lives" (as
@APApsychiatric
trumpeted in 2004 when the SSRI party was getting started), shouldn't the suicide rate be decreasing?
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There's a pretty solid body of evidence that
#antidepressants
often result in restriction of emotional range & response, very rarely cause elation. Most frequent adverse effects, such as blunting & sexual dysfunction, are far more reliable drug effects than relief of depression.
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My paper "What I have learnt from helping thousands of people taper off antidepressants and other psychotropic medications"
Has gotten 99,252 views since it was published in March, 2021. Help it get to 100,000 views by the end of this year! Please retweet!
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Why is this such a surprise? Because for 35 years, psychiatry has insisted all "depression" arises from an intrinsic, incurable defect in the individual, not in something that can be changed or overcome. And millions have bought into this destructive presumption of inadequacy.
Therapist. Can confirm. Not all, but probably a decent majority of my patients with depression needed to make some major lifestyle change, like ending a bad relationship or moving or applying for better jobs. However, patterns learned in childhood can be the reason people get
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Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists (RANZCP) takes down false claim that drugs rebalance brain chemistry
Thanks,
@PsychwatchA
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Maybe it’s because the “treatment” they received in the psychiatric ward was destructive rather than therapeutic.
During the first week after discharge from a psychiatric hospitalization for depression, patients have a 260x greater suicide risk than the general population.
Discharge planning should include seamless transition to Intensive Outpatient Programs!
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That people who get
#antidepressant
withdrawal symptoms are misdiagnosed with "relapse" & wrongly told by their doctors they need the drug to control their
#psychiatric
condition -- rather than taper slower -- that's going to be a very difficult pill for
#psychiatry
to swallow.
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Child psychiatrist Tyler Black has not paid a bit of attention to the evidence that much of “relapse” in antidepressant discontinuation trials is withdrawal, not “recurrent depression”. His patients will be maintained on the drugs for life.
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It is so frustrating reading about the stupid mistakes
#psychiatrists
make every day. Foremost: Not recognizing adverse drug effects, mistaking for psychiatric symptoms instead, increasing dosage or adding drugs. Not rotten apples. They do this ALL the time, all over the world.
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Somebody out there is interested in how to come off psychiatric drugs.
Total views and downloads: 144437
What I have learnt from helping thousands of people taper off antidepressants and other psychotropic medications - Adele Framer, 2021
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Some doctor did this to this woman.
10am - 25mg Pristiq
12pm - 67.5mg Gabapantin
2pm - 27.33mg Wellbutrin IR
4pm - 67.5mg Gabapentin
6pm - 27.33mg Wellbutrin IR
8pm - 67.5mg Gabapentin
11pm - 60mg Seroquel
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The best doctors realize medical training is only a launchpad & then learn from their patients, allowing that textbooks don't cover everything. This understanding does not come naturally, or at all, to most doctors. Look for the best doctors, they'll talk with you, not at you.
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January, 2022:
@jakegoodmanMD
lauded by the American Psychiatric Association
@APApsychiatric
for his missionary work among those hesitant to become dependent on
#antidepressants
to correct their "chemical imbalance".
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What the recent uproar over "serotonin deficiency" shows is how hollow
#psychiatry
is at its core. None of its other hypotheses of "depression" can bear scrutiny, either. It is reduced to a near-religious faith in "
#antidepressants
work" -- another disingenuous simplistic slogan.
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So, a
#psychiatrist
prescribes 20mg Belsomra to a patient. She reacts badly, the dosage is too high, but the psychiatrist has no advice about how to reduce the dosage gradually, to avoid withdrawal.
Why is this the responsibility of a peer support Web site?
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Once you have a
#psychiatric
diagnosis or prescription in your history, you can kiss goodbye to doctors treating you like a rational adult (goes double for women).
Nowhere is the stigma of mental illness so intense as among the medical profession. You become a non-person.
We often discuss how psych-diagnosis 'opens the door to care'. But let's talk about how it regularly shuts it, via 'diagnostic overshadowing’: when physical complaints get wrongly attributed to 'mental illness', with examinations & treatments being consequently delayed or denied.
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Nobody knows anything about antidepressants.
Prescribing them is a faith-based medical practice.
Food for thought - what are the correct answers?
From a survey of knowledge about antidepressants, used in a study of medical students:
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Bad news, doctors don't know anything about adverse effects of benzodiazepines, either. They need refresher courses in basic pharmacology &, specifically, interdose withdrawal & paradoxical effects from psychotropics. Not to mention withdrawal.
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Everybody should be aware that in mental health industry jargon, the "care" in "access to care" is a euphemism for drug prescription. Psychotherapy, poorly compensated by insurance & thus scarce, only gets lip service. First-line "care" is drug distribution.
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Moral injury in psychiatry training. Observing adverse effects of drug treatment, "I was forced to watch as my patients got worse". Rather than taking patients off the drugs, training superiors insisted treatment was necessary & should be continued.
No one wanted us to ask questions 🫢 in our residency.
#psychiatrist
#psychiatristsoftiktok
#psychiatrists
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I have 20,000 members whose antidepressant withdrawal symptoms were misdiagnosed as "relapse". The Cymbalta (duloxetine) withdrawal group on Facebook has 50,000 members. How rare is it,
@tylerblack32
?
@Cassandra_XX_
@benzosarebad
@shvogt
@Inamadworld1
@PssdWarrior
@recover2renew
@pssd_victim
@ChrisGovernale
@BlackshepSusan
@atomicaceso
@SsriHarm
That’s a more common problem, that the profession, including Tyler Black, also tried to deny for decades. Withdrawals and PSSD were the subject of a
@BBCPanorama
documentary “The Antidepressant Story” last month.
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Oh, dear, just suppose mainstream US
#psychiatry
is called to account for publishing medical misinformation over & over for years — while it claims it knew it wasn’t true all along! Not much of a defense.
#PlayingtheVictim
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Correction: Psychiatrists desperately fear loss of status & are angry about even the possibility. They project that fear/anger on those who remind them of the systemic error that riddles their medical specialty, insulting them with the pejorative "antipsychiatry".
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Medical model in mental health means that any brush with "depression", even disappointment over not going to the prom when you're 16, means you have been infected with a disease that can overcome you at any moment. Therefore, you need drug treatment for maybe 2 years or forever.
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"I'd been told "chemical imbalance" runs in families like mine and I was doomed to be miserably drugged till I died."
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Thanks,
#psychiatry
, for making psychotropics so prevalent that this malarkey can be advertised on Facebook as clinical therapy:
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The belief held by prescribers that "antidepressants save lives" suggests that psychiatry has the characteristics of a religion rather than a medical science. There is no evidence antidepressants save lives. Suicide rates increased with prescription rates.
Extremely hard for me to comprehend how someone with this much financial and social power can make a naive and blanketed statement like this.
SSRIs have saved so many lives including those of countless patients of mine
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"Although brain zaps are perhaps the most unique symptom of antidepressant withdrawal, they’ve largely been ignored in the literature. They aren’t included in the 43-item Discontinuation Emergent Signs and Symptoms Scale (DESS), for example."
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Psychiatrist at the scene of a car crash: “But cars do so much good! Maybe something else mangled the passengers. Maybe they were pre-mangled”.
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This is perhaps the most important thread I've ever read about
#Deprescribing
in
#psychiatry
. What's actually going on in
#clinical
practice? Why do so many
#psychiatrists
say they've never seen a
#withdrawal
symptom?
@wendyburn
@AllenFrancesMD
@CEP_UK
#DunningKruger
I watched a very interesting talk this morning at the
#washU
med school about
#deprescribing
in geriatric patients. It's shocking to see all
#psychiatry
blind spots in person. I'll list some below in comments. However, THIS IS A START and I don't want to discredit that.
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Sad to have to advise thus: "Your symptoms may be from switching benzos, tapering benzos, drug interactions, adverse effects of one of more drugs, or escitalopram cold turkey. It would not be unusual for your doctor to be completely ignorant of any of these adverse consequences."
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Just discovered: "School avoidant behavior"
"There’s no book on this, it’s not spoken about. It’s very scary and parents feel a sense of helplessness."
Have we reached peak medicalization yet?
via
@usatoday
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"I'm an RN currently going through lexapro withdrawal....My view of medicine has completely changed since I developed adverse reactions & my psychiatrist kept changing my meds at every 4 week appointment. The medical community is in the dark about this."
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This is an age of mass prescribed psychotropics, but prescribers know very little about them other than the drug company hype now embedded in medical textbooks & what passes for "everybody knows". Huge gap of knowledge re adverse drug effects, paradoxical reactions, withdrawal.
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So tired of having to tell people this: "Most likely, your
#psychiatrist
doesn't know anything about
#psychiatric
drug withdrawal or tapering. That is why peer support exists."
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Clinicians' main use of the "serotonin deficiency" explanation was to manipulate patients into agreeing to to take
#antidepressants
to correct a purported chronic biological condition. Many patients have been taking the drugs unnecessarily for years because of this.
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Are doctors actually telling their patients that prescribed stimulants are different from those you’d buy from a drug dealer? That would be a lie, they’re often the same pills! A prescription is no shield against drug dependency.
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If your psychiatric drug treatment goes wrong, you'll find out what real stigma is, all right.
BTW, the most intense "stigma of mental illness" radiates from medical professionals, they set the tone for everyone else. Ironic that they decry stigma, since they're the worst.
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Utterly fed up with the medical error & downright stupidity I see from psychiatric prescribers -- both GPs and psychiatrists -- from my Web site members every day.
Maybe 5 in 100 psychiatrists is worth their credentials. GPs should not be prescribing psychiatric drugs, period.
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Appalled to see psychiatry using distress over a worldwide calamity to lobby for more funds for "mental health services", meaning psychiatric drug distribution. Psychiatry is not the whole of mental health services, drugging people will not make them forget threat of coronavirus.
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And this is in the elite facilities:
Paris Hilton to Congress: "I was force fed medications and sexually abused by the staff. I was violently restrained and dragged down hallways, stripped naked and thrown into solitary confinement."
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Here's a simple rule of thumb for
#psychiatric
prescribers: If your patient is getting worse, you're on the wrong track. Stop prescribing drugs to them. You can't unburn the cake by baking it more.
@KenV54
@Altostrata
@joannamoncrieff
@recover2renew
@PeterDKramer
No personal expert either – but believe, like you I think, that safe treatment needs to be cautious, paying careful attention to individual responses. Even discounting pharma influence (as if), no amount of RCT data can tell us how the individual might react. Person is the data.
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Unknowingly arrogant psychiatrist demonstrates why people dislike & distrust psychiatrists.
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Despite pop myths, antidepressants never were universally beneficial. It's long been known that most patients exercise their human rights & soon stop taking them because they're more trouble than they're worth. "Antipsychiatry" has nothing to do with this.
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Psychiatrists being awful human beings
Would like to remind everyone that this “Dr” is a non-clinical psychologist who is a grifter who will sell you a book and class and membership to her cult
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Dr. Ed White's account of
#antidepressant
withdrawal syndrome. An active patient advocate & researcher, Ed suffered a setback in his grueling symptoms & took his own life a week ago. We all are bereft.
Antidepressant Withdrawal: Avoid Doctors? via
@RxISK
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FYI this psychiatrist cannot tell antidepressant withdrawal symptoms from "relapse".
THIS IS NORMAL CARE
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The lack of a recovery model in
#psychiatry
is a disgrace to the medical profession. Is a patient never expected to recover? When may treatment come to an end?
1999, the American Psychiatric Association’s Textbook of Psychiatry: “most patients would eventually recover from a major depressive episode.”
2023: we all but abandoned that theory in favor of labeling it as a chronic condition with lifelong rationale for
#antidepressants
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Disappointed to see young people advised to "see your GP" regarding climate anxiety. This means get a prescription for drugs, likely
#antidepressants
.
The climate emergency is not going to fix itself. We cannot expect this anxiety to vanish unless we take united global action.
In the light of the latest
#IPCCreport
- which makes frightening reading with regard to the climate - please share this resource, which provides support for young people who are particularly worried about the climate and ecological crisis we face
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Very few complainers leave the doctor's office without an
#antidepressant
prescription. "Although 40 percent of them had "mild" depression, doctors had prescribed antidepressants to 97 percent of patients."
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Wishing all the best for 2024 to everyone reading this.
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Psychiatry discovers that children raised in stable homes are less "depressed" than children raised in unstable homes.
Yes, this is news to these scientists of the human emotions, who mostly do nothing but prescribe drugs for "depressed" people.
A settled home environment in childhood may have a protective association against depression, finds study of all 1 milion+ individuals born in Denmark between January 1, 1982, and December 31, 2003, and residing in Denmark during childhood.
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It's gonna be a bad day for psychiatric prescribers when their patients realize the drugs have been making them feel terrible for years.
Not all the patients, of course. Just those who find the drug adverse effects nearly intolerable.
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Much appalling about this article, but worst perhaps is that these researchers gave a homeless woman taking 5
#psychiatric
drugs a phone & Fitbit to report her thoughts of suicidality so they might intervene. How about giving her a home????
no paywall
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Everyone should read this.
How to Advocate Effectively for Loved Ones Harmed by Psychiatric Drugs - Mad In America
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@sarahanmy
If you were truly curious, you could read up on the history of medicalization in the mental health field. Pharma spent billion$ ~1990-2015 to convince a mass market that it needed to correct its troubles with psychiatric drugs, profiting by many more billion$. That’s our legacy.
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Mainstream psychiatry: "
#Antidepressants
are good. They help so many people".
Patients: "Our adverse drug effects were never recognized. What if many are injured or not helped by antidepressants?"
Mainstream psychiatry: "
#Antidepressants
are good. They help so many people".
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"I further googled antidepressant withdrawal & sobbed. I had spent the past month convinced I was losing my mind, convinced I was going to have to live with another chronic condition, convinced that I was never going to recover & that I would end my life."
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All
#psychiatric
prescribers say "not me" when they hear of iatrogenic harm, so who is causing it?
Yes, it's you, unless you make an effort to study it & how to avoid it. Start with recognition of adverse drug effects, withdrawal, & unwarranted polypharmacy if >1 drug prescribed
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If you were homeless, wouldn't you be at least "depressed"? Medicalization of all human experience marches on.
V important study from
@JAMAPsych
highlighting prevalence of mental illness amongst people experiencing homelessness.
There needs to be so much more support in place to tackle socio-economic marginalisation of people living with long-term
#mentalhealth
conditions
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It’s good that this corner of psychiatric diagnosis is getting cleared up. How many people who needed thyroid treatment got psychiatric drug treatment instead because the clinician had tunnel vision & could see only psychiatric disorders?
Autoimmune thyroiditis presenting as mania: highlighting the importance of the medical work-up.
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Once a psychiatric patient, you're a patient for life unless you unpatient yourself. Have a frank talk with your prescriber.
Yesterday, I saw Rachel’s psychiatrist with her mom. It didn’t go as well as planned. The psychiatrist suggested Rachel is in remission and could eventually relapse. Meanwhile, you can see and hear that Rachel in grounded in reality. It’s just one colossal disappointment. The
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People say they're "addicted" to antidepressants, but that's an inexact usage. Difficulty quitting antidepressants arises due to natural neurobiological adaption to them. This is called physiological dependence. It is not addiction, though even doctors are confused by this.
Just to be extra clear for all the unqualified nepo babies with brain worms out there, there is no such thing as “addiction to antidepressants”
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A destructive aspect of “serotonin deficiency” & its ilk is that they encourage psychological dependency on
#antidepressants
, people believing they literally need the drug like a diabetic needs insulin to live. This is not empowering. It’s the technical definition of addiction.
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Excellent advice. Try not to show fear, rage, anger, or indignation & do not weep & beg for help. Do not make bitter jokes. Any of these behaviors will get you more extreme treatment, possibly forcibly.
Pro tip: If you are in the ER psych pod, stay completely calm and tell anyone who evaluates you that you are totally fine and just confused. It is not the time to share your problems. It is not the time to rant about knowing your rights and how evil people are.
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UK woman on antidepressants for 23 years gets ADHD diagnosis from a private psychiatrist, though she's on:
30mg mirtazapine
150mg venlafaxine
canagliflozin
nebivolol
ramipril
sitagliptin
Estradiol Patch (estradiol)
Is the psychiatrist
A) Visionary?
B) Clueless?
C) Negligent?
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If your psychiatrist can mistake withdrawal symptoms for relapse, what does that say about their diagnostic skills overall?
Carmine has an excellent article out in the Guardian - it reflects my clinical experience over 35 years of practice as well.
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@drjrucker
@joannamoncrieff
Wow, a psychiatrist who doesn't understand the complexities of human motivation? Patients read something that doesn't fit your personally preferred narrative? What other controlling behavior did you exhibit towards this fragile patient?
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LOL. Why take an ineffective drug for "depression" when you could continue it with "adjunct" antipsychotic & increase your risk of movement disorders & diabetes?
Pile on the drugs! Burn the village to save it, stamp out "depression" by any means necessary!
#sparklyponypoop
Treatment-resistant depression: Could combining antipsychotics and antidepressants help?
#ScienceTwitter
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First clinic opened for tapering off
#antidepressants
GGZ inGeest & Amsterdam UMC have opened the first phasing out clinic in the Netherlands. The outpatient clinic will guide patients who need it to reduce the use of antidepressants.
@PCGroot
@markhoro
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Patients say
#psychiatrists
told them they needed
#antidepressants
to correct “serotonin deficiency” or “chemical imbalance”. Psychiatrists claim they’d never be that dumb. Who you gonna believe?
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@AhmadRehanKhan
@Rebecca99LT
Your opinion, Dr. Khan, reveals a vacuum of empathy for patients who might have been injured by your care or that of your colleagues. Of course they want to warn others about the possibility of harm! Anyone with a heart would see that. You have just demonstrated what's wrong.
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