Tribunal Tweets 2 #OpenJustice
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Update: Judge Bromwich, who presided in Tickle vs Giggle will become the Chief Justice of the Norfolk Island Supreme Court on 7 May 2024. This suggests that the judgment may be forthcoming prior to his departure.
Court proceedings in Tickle vs Giggle concluded today. Here is our Substack with all coverage.
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NEWS! The Medical Practice Tribunal has determined to erase Dr Michael Webberley from the Medical Register and also to impose an immediate order of suspension on his registration to cover the 28-day appeal period
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The medical practitioners tribunal has found that Dr Michael Webberley, who ran an online clinic prescribing testosterone to men in the UK and Gender GP, an online transgender clinic, failed to provide good clinical care to patients and was dishonest.
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Writer Gillian Philip is taking her publishers to an initial employment tribunal hearing for discrimination on the basis of age and her gender critical beliefs. Her contract was ended after she publicly supported JK Rowling and she believes a concerted campaign to fire her.
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The Tickle Vs Giggle case is being heard in federal court in Sydney, Australia. Evidence is expected to begin on Tuesday 9 April 2024, 9.30 am Sydney Time.
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Gillian Philip added
#IStandWithJKRowling
to her Twitter account in 2020 resulting in HarperCollins & book creators WorkingPartners terminating her contract.
If the judge permits, we'll be reporting from the preliminary hearing in her employment tribunal.
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The Medical Practitioners' Tribunal has issued the finding of facts in the case of Dr Helen Webberley.
36 allegations proved. 83 allegations found not proved or rejected under Rule 17(2)(g) on sufficient evidence.
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Patient consent forms contained information that was untrue and informed consent was not obtained. Michael Webberley failed to establish an adequate Multi-Disciplinary Team. The tribunal also found his actions were dishonest.
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The tribunal found Michael Webberley's failure to provide good clinical care for patients related to consultations, history taking, examination, diagnosis, prescribing, delegated communication, follow up, assessment, working within the limits of his expertise and the guidance.
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The tribunal will now consider if Michael Webberley's fitness to practise as a doctor is impaired.
Sanctions may be imposed to protect the public, maintain public confidence in the medical profession and proper professional standards and conduct for the members
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GC - would you agree that some of merchandise is offensive?
SG - Can i have a look at it?
GC - court bk 285 pg.
GC - see 'sweaty balls team tickle candle'
SG - yes
GC - are you laughing MS Grover!
SG - understand that some would find it offensive
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BR: I do not want to promote homophobia. The concept of cotton ceiling refers to lesbian's knickers, and lesbians are being pressured to accept males who have demonstrably not changed their sexed bodies, through dating sites, etc. This is homophobic and dangerous to women.
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Good morning! Hopefully today this account will be live tweeting the appeal against the CPS refusal to disclose if Stonewall or other lobby groups were involved in the creation of its Hate Crimes guidance for schools in 2020
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Good morning & welcome to Day 1 of the medical practitioners tribunal considering the fitness to practice of Dr Michael Webberley, co-founder of Gender GP.
I'm
@StoatlyL
& will be live tweeting for you today from an MPTS "viewing room" in Manchester.
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Day 1 concluded in Tickle Vs Giggle in federal court in Australia.
See coverage here:
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"..overarching objective which is to protect patients, maintain public confidence in the medical profession and uphold proper professional standards".
Full document here:
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"The Tribunal determined that, in all the circumstances of this case, and for all the reasons set out above, having balanced the interest of the doctor and the public, erasing Dr Webberley’s name from the Medical Register is the only appropriate sanction in order to meet the..."
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"This case involved findings of failure to provide good clin care in relation to 24 patients over a sustained period of approx 2 years. The facts proved covered a wide range of failures in the provision of care to these patients, as identified in the Trib’s finding on impairment"
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The tribunal will continue (dates tba) with evidence of Michael Webberley's fitness to practice.
It can place conditions on the doctor's registration, suspend registration or erase the doctor’s name from the medical register, so he can no longer practise.
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DAY 2 - will commence 10.15 am Syd/Australia Time
Abbreviations
J = Justice Robert Bromwich
Giggle's Counsel
BN = Bridie Nolan
COUNSEL FOR TICKLE:
GC = Georgina Costello
BG = Briana Goding
SG = Sall Grover
RT = Roxanne Tickle
CW = Colin Wright
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We will post the full sanctions document on our substack (see above) soon.
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Some allegations were found not proved, on the balance of probabilities, the civil standard of proof used by the tribunal.
The decision has detailed consideration of the law and expert evidence and each element of the allegations and is 305 pages long.
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We hope to attend and report the preliminary hearing today - Friday, if the Employment Tribunal Judge gives permission.
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This is a great video to watch in the lead up for tomorrow's Tickle v Giggle hearing. Full clip:
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Good morning. This is
@RuthlessTweets
for TribunalTweets and waiting to report on the Gillian Philip tribunal. We are due start at 10am. A reminder of the abbreviations used:
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"In reaching its decision, the Tribunal has taken account its findings at stage 1 and stage 2, all the evidence before it, the Sanctions Guidance and the overarching
objective.
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SG - Confirming that the 'situation that only a man who needs to be a female in law is that they're not a female in reality "
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The next stage of the tribunal (dates tbc) is the impairment stage. It will hear evidence on whether Dr Helen Webberley's ability to practice is impaired due to the allegations found proved.
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RT - took drugs - changed body - had GA surgery vagina and labia plasticy - Socially - told workplace - family etc.
Theres a grooming aspect -shopped female stores - removing facial hair - (as much as can) At a practical level use female change rooms,play female sport team
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Tickle vs Giggle case is 4 minutes from the doors opening. J (Justice Bromich) to commence 10.15 am.
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GC - normally polite?
sG - Emails mainly from males - abusing we don't get them from females
GC - if it was from a female you wouldn't find them impolite
SG - hard to answer coz i wouldnt be in ths position if RT was a female
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GC confirming - that SG 'you can take me to court for not believing a man is a woman it would still not make me believe' (rough quote)
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'everyone treated me as a woman'
GC asks about his name. RT - says legal name Roxanne, or Roxy around friends.
GC any qualification around everyone treating me as a woman -
RT gets frowns and funny looks
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Other allegations regarding Michael Webberley's dishonesty concerned false statements on the levels of normal testosterone on the consent forms were found proven by the tribunal as "self-evidently dishonest & would be regarded as such by the standards of ordinary decent people."
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GC confirming SG will give affidavit tomorrow - meeting 10.15. Adjourn till 10.15.
Will clarify some of these tweets and arguments - later tonight. Note, Helen Joyce will not be giving evidence - asked why - in a nutshell, her report needs to speak directly to the case at hand.
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The determination of facts in the hearing concerning Dr Michael Webberley is here.
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J: that is not what you are being asked
BR: yes it is, as GI is homophobic. Lesbians are being put under pressure to have sex with TW. The change of same sex attracted to same gender attracted is inherently homophobic. (Cotton ceiling)
J How did we get to this?
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"In particular, the Tribunal considered that the only purpose which Dr Webberley could have had in knowingly making this untrue statement, would have
been to either, in due course, mislead his patient into believing that he had a medical condition requiring treatment..." >
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PART 3 - [Organizing next steps]
(Note using [ and ] to paraphrase conversations)
BN - objecting to ad nauseam questions asked about tweets - that were offensive. Points out RT is blocked - so RT couldn't have seen all those tweets Sall Grover made.
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PART 3 - 2.15 pm - counsels returning to court.
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DAY 3 - Giggle vs Tickle
DAY 2 - will commence 10.15 am Syd/Australia Time
Abbreviations
J = Justice Robert Bromwich
Giggle's Counsel
BN = Bridie Nolan
COUNSEL FOR TICKLE:
GC = Georgina Costello
BG = Briana Goding
SG = Sall Grover
RT = Roxanne Tickle
CW = Colin Wright
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Thats it - the case is over. There is a lot to fill in. Will provide later
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"...namely hypogonadism & that TRT/TT was
necessary or, alternatively to create the impression to others that he was providing treatment to Patient A for a bona fide medical condition as opposed to prescribing inappropriately for the purpose of, for example, ‘body sculpting’...">
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"Accordingly, the Tribunal determined that Dr [Michael] Webberley's fitness to practice is impaired by reason of his misconduct"
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Abbreviations
J = Justice Robert Bromwich
ALEXANDER RASHIDI LAWYERS:
BN = Bridie Nolan
AC = Anca Costin
KD = Kath Deves
ZH = Zelie Heger
COUNSEL FOR TICKLE:
GC = Georgina Costello
EN = Elodie Nadon
BG = Briana Goding
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There were a number of allegations of dishonesty.
Allegations 83- 88 concerning facts on operation of Gender GP & the involvement of suspended Gender GP, Dr Helen Webberley were found proven.
Allegation 89 on dishonesty related to use of the Gender GP name was found not proved.
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GC -[ lists tweets that say 'castrated man' - Sall fighting for rights - ]
GC - isn't this hurtful - e.g. castrated man'
BN -objects - sG leaves room
- puts argument - cross examination not appropriate - on asking questions of SG of what RT is thinking or feeling -
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When GI comes in conflict with sex - CEDAW states Sex must prevail - BN gives sections that support that argument.
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Correction that was GC - last tweet..
GC continuing - gives RT's complaints about the likes or tweets, interviews etc from SG and others hurt feelings.
RT upset greatly that RT is not a woman - very distressing, draining and hurtful & says led other people has said hateful posts
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GC - where did you see it /
Never said don't sell offensive items dy?
SG - didnt tell her what to do
GC - don't take upon you to tell its not nice
SG -ppl come to own conclusions
GC - have you shared
SG - few occasions worn and retweeted in celebration of fab work of women
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WorkingPartners asked the employment tribunal to ban media reporting for fear of hostile emails.
The judge rejected the request, underlining the basic principles of open justice and legal protections for free speech.
Join us at 10am here.
#OpenJustice
#FreedomOfSpeech
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".. or enhanced athletic performance.
In reaching this conclusion, the Tribunal considered it significant that within the consent form not only was the upper limit of normal testosterone range
inflated, it was also stated that to obtain the full benefits of testosterone," >
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Day 2 has concluded in Tickle vs Giggle. Our coverage to date and links to press are here:
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RQ: this is extraordinary. There's almost no indication of prescribing PBs to a child of 9. This is exceptional for special paediatric endocrinology. It would be exceptional for a gender service and initiated by a doctor without TG knowledge or paediatrics...I'm speechless
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"This specifically meant potentially raising the patient’s testosterone level to the higher (upper) quarter of the untruthful reference
range, stated to be 24/40 nmol/L. "
So the Tribunal found dishonesty proved in relation to allegations concerning consent forms.
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Some allegations were dismissed following the Rule 17(2)(g) Application. The tribunal found Helen Weberley had a case to answer in respect of other allegations. The decision is here.
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Key feature - safe place - for employment , abuse etc. Vision for app to create a refuge from males - for serious reasons, less, without aggression, stalking , male pattern violence etc.
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GC - even if AMAB - has GA surgery, took hormones, change name, electrolysis, undergone facial reconstruction - shopped , wears woman, uses female change rooms, has bd cert - YOU DONT ACCEPT THAT PERSON IS A WOMAN DON'T YOU?
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GC - do you understand deeply offensive to RT
SG - is subjective what is offensive to one is not to another
[not the question was asked a no. of times - that some would find this offensive]
GC page 249
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The tribunal on the GMC's allegations of misconduct will be considering Dr Michael Webberley's adjournment application in private session tomorrow.
So we will bring you the outcome when we get it, and will not report live from Manchester tomorrow.
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RT sits down.
J doesn't see any utility at starting evidence at this time of the day. Suggesting better adjourn.
SG will be cross examined tomorrow.
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The determination of facts for Helen Webberley's case is 203 pages.
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BN - RTs feelings has no relevance. Case is about discrimination - 'its not for the applicant that i lived as a female' - summary of BN argument - what is the evidence that RT is a female?
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Good afternoon. We are waiting for the afternoon session of the hearing to start. Due to start 3pm.
This is
@RuthlessTweets
on behalf of Tribunal Tweets
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Court proceedings in Tickle vs Giggle concluded today. Here is our Substack with all coverage.
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J has arrived - court commenced.
GC is objecting to Helen Joyce's affadavit.
Objection - is not qualified on Australian laws - or scientific or psychological territory.
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Good morning and welcome to Gillian Philip's employment tribunal. Today is 10th June 2022.
This is
@wommando
reporting and we're due to start at 10am.
Catch up with yesterday here:
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"the purpose of the therapy was to restore testosterone levels to the ‘optimal’ range and
not the ‘normal for age’ range." >
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BN - a person doesn't discriminate against another (7d) (mumble) - Giggle is an online refuge - describing why Giggle relates to a special measure for equality. BN notes that the constant attacks - confirms the male pattern of violence and need for App
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Abbreviations:
DM - David Mitchell QC Barrister for Gillian Philip
SQ - Shah Qureshi Solicitor for GP
GP - Gillian Philip writer bringing ET
Defendants
HC - HarperCollins publisher &
WP - WorkingPartners book creators
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PART 2 -
NEW ABBREVIATIONS:
du? = didn't you?
wua? = wouldn't you agree?
u = you
dk = don't know
Court starting to come back in...
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We hope to report this morning from Gillian Philip's Employment Appeal Tribunal in Edinburgh on whether she has employee or worker status controlled by Working Partners or was her status that of contractor, with no employment protections.
#OpenJustice
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AK: areas requiring further exploration: child was very shy and did not speak, mother answered all the questions. I would like to engage directly with the child to understand their feelings. No signs of mental health assessment, for example looking for autism spectrum disorder.
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RT states name and occupation (Accountant) asks 'tell the honour what do you mean lived woman since 2017'
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BN court is making an assessment of reasonableness, HJ is called to give evidence is - the material research - from Sex Matters - only org that deals with conflict tween GI (gender identity) and Sex. Whether legal sex sit comfortably as biological sex - without conflict departure
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Follow us & sign up to our substack for reporting on the judicial review application brought this week by a teacher on the grounds that the local authority and school has failed to comply with their duties under the s175 of the Education Act 2002.
#EduTwitter
#LegalTwitter
We hope to report on this judicial review concerning safeguarding concerns of a socially transitioning child at primary school, if there is remote access.
Please follow
@tribunaltweets2
for more information tomorrow.
#OpenJustice
#LegalTwitter
#JudicialReview
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AHRC (Australian Human Rights Commission)
ZH = Zelie Hegel (Counsel)
GE = Grame Egerton
LR = Lara Renton
BARRY NILSSON LAWYERS
CD = Corrinna Dowling
TM = Tinashe Makamure
KS = Kylie Stone
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Watched thousands of men attempting to onboard, they mainly failed. While SG was in labour - an online activist called for an attack on the app - subsequent acts resulted august 2022 (?) taken down
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Court is looking at a specific affidavit for 23rd of Oct, pg 287. Discussing whether read expert or lay affidavit and objections today or later, and who. i.e. Colin Wright.
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GC - 285 - do agree with me - the sweaty balls candle - you reposted it/
You agree with me offensive merchandise has been sold du?
SG - offensive is subjective
GC - reads a tweet supporting the sale of merchandise - referring to RT grubby man trying to get on app
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Taking a 10 minute break. Apologies - lost some of convo - will summarise offthread.
@threadreaderapp
unroll
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BN replies - social media all dating websites - there is exclusively trans apps - J is considering Giggle app. SG had experienced sexual abuse - in States - as friend. SG's mother suggested an app to provide support for women in that situation..
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GC - have u reg. posted about this case. SG-Y
GC - have u reg. posted RT a man
SG - clarifies no woman would have to take me to court to say that they're a man (roughly the quote)
GC - dua? that called RT a man -SG-Y
GC - that wanted female space SG - Yes
and spoke at media
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GC - you said bombarded by 1000s of men SG-Y
GC - you dn't know if TW do you?
SG know them men
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"The tribunal concluded that in the absence of any expression of regret and/or remorse, insight and/or remediation, MW is liable in the future to put patients at risk, bring the medical profession into disrepute, breach fundamental tenets of the profession and act dishonestly"
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Good morning, today we're tweeting the appeal brought by For Women Scotland against the Lord Advocate (Government of Scotland) in relation to the Scottish Government's statutory guidance for its Gender Representation on Public Boards (Scotland) Act 2018
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RQ: it's almost exploitative, this is a vulnerable person was a difficult stage in his life and instead of help he gets banged full of hormones. There's no indication for it based on history and blood tests
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Part 2 - 11:43 am (continuing) Discussing
Para 4 1st sentence - (may be on online resources discussed to be provided) - J is asking the statement of truth or evidence of state of mine - (legitimacy of statement/evidence?)
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Good morning & welcome to the misconduct hearing of Dr Michael Webberley.
The tribunal rejected MW's 2nd app to adjourn & the tribunal will start and continue for 10 weeks.
This is
@Wommando
tweeting from Manchester.
Catch up:
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BN - enquires if J has read Wright's report that there are only 2 sexes - 2 sexes create primary and secondary characters - connected to..the binary. Reasonable for SG to recognise RT is male.
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Place to get advice - in a female only env. positive impact for women. BN is describing the details of services of what can be done on the APP - extensive examples given
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BN discusses need for protecting women from male pattern violence IRL and online
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GC [ you shared the store / merchandise / and retweeted it to others / du?
GC - 'all profits go to
GC - line of argument that the funds of all this merchandise goes to teamgiggle.
SG - explains how Etsy work
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The medical practitioners tribunal hearing Dr Michael Webberley's case is expected to continue in private next week. We'll be back when there is more information.
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hair, side of aisle shop etc . [ she prepares - she speeds up etc - that is the psychology of women, if a man truly had the psychology of woman they would not do that,
that RT does so just proves not a woman but a man'
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We are hoping to live tweet the employment tribunal in Nottingham of schoolteacher 'Hannah' v her previous employer who are unnamed. Hannah was sacked after raising safeguarding concerns about socially transitioning an 8 year old pupil.
We await the judges permission to tweet.
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Good morning. Sophie is today’s tweeter. Reminder of abbreviations:
MW: Dr Michael Webberley
SJ: Simon Jackson- QC for GMC
RD: Ryan Donoghue - counsel for GMC
Chair- chair of panel
Panel- other panel members
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Permission not granted. Notes will be taken.
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SG no
GC - suggest to you that is a woman
SG - don't aggree
GC in Feb 2021 - registered on Giggle App
And the process involved AI?
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