Samuel 🕊️
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Augsburg Catholic | Scholasticism | “This I know, that in my flesh I shall see God” Job 19:26
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Concerning the state of the controversy (status controversiae) between the Lutherans and the Reformed on the Lord’s Supper 🧵:
Disputed Theses:
Q1: Whether the substance of Christ’s body is present under the form of bread?
• The question is not (1) whether the substance of
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The God of the universe became a wiggling baby in order to get close to you.
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baptist: but infants can’t believe!
bible: “But You are He who took Me out of the womb; You made Me trust while on My mother’s breasts. I was cast upon You from birth. From My mother’s womb You have been My God.”
Psalms 22:9-10 NKJV
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"Have you sinned? Come to Church. Tell God, 'I have sinned.' I do not demand anything else of you than this. Holy Scripture states, 'Be the first one to tell of your transgressions, so you may be justified.' [Is. 43:26] Admit the sin to annul it. This requires neither labor (1/2)
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Justin Martyr after proving Christianity from many passages of the Old Testament:
“Are you acquainted with them, Trypho? They are contained in your Scriptures, or rather not yours, but ours” - St. Justin Martyr, Dial. 49.2
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St. Gregory of Nazianzus (c. 325-389 AD) on the baptism of infants:
“Have you an infant child? Do not let sin get any opportunity, but let him be sanctified from his childhood; from his very tenderest age let him be consecrated by the Spirit… Give your child the Trinity, (1/4)
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“Although the angels in heaven pray for us (as Christ Himself also does), as also do the saints on earth, and perhaps also in heaven, yet it does not follow thence that we should invoke and adore the angels and saints, and fast, hold festivals, celebrate Mass in their (1/3)
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Never ceases to amaze me.
Luther had an affair with a Nun
This is what he actually looked like
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“The reason for the heretics’ error is their saying that nature and hypostasis are the same thing.” - St. John of Damascus, De Fide Orthodoxa, bk. III, ch. 3
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St. Jerome on Infant Baptism:
“C. Tell me, pray, and rid me of all doubts, why little children are baptized.
A. That their sins may be forgiven them in baptism.
C. What sin are they guilty of? How can any one be set free who is not bound?
A. You ask me! The Gospel (1/4)
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“Do you demand Scripture [proof] from us, dear fanatics? Here it is: ‘Take, eat, this is My body.’” - St. Martin Luther (LW 37:53)
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The Bible never says that the thief on the cross wasn’t baptized.
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nor a circuit of words, nor monetary expenditure, nor anything else whatsoever such as these. Say one word, think carefully about the sin and say, 'I have sinned.'" - St. John Chrysostom, Homily 2 on Repentance, ch. 1, no. 2 (2/2)
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“But he said quite plainly ‘This is my body’, and ‘This is my blood’, so that you may not suppose that the things you see are a type; rather, in some ineffable way they are changed (μεταποίεσθαι) by God, into the body and blood of Christ truly offered.” - St. Cyril of Alexandria,
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“The Old Testament seems to me to be a moon, and the New Testament a sun, for the Old Testament takes its light from the New." - Blessed Martin Luther
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update: no longer trapped in non denom church, now lutheran catechumen. pretty cool
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Glory to God in the highest! I just received word that my granduncle, who rejected Christ his whole life, broke down in tears, confessed Christ as Lord, and was baptized this day on his deathbed. Pray that Our Lord would preserve him in faith throughout his last days. Amen.
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the Lutheran church is the only Christian tradition who is simultaneously accused of being too doctrinally strict and too mysterious
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Nothing new under the sun.
“Our teachers are falsely accused of forbidding Good Works.” - St. Philip Melanchthon, Augsburg Confession, XX.I
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Impressively, this is wrong in 4 ways:
- RC’s don’t believe in the omnipresence of Christ’s human nature.
- Lutherans do (in a qualified sense) and are Prots.
- Chalcedon doesn’t condemn this.
- The bishops at Chalcedon believed in the real presence.
Roman Catholics presume that Sola Scriptura is a rejection of tradition.
Meanwhile, Protestants have studied the Fathers enough to know that transubstantiation-which teaches that Christ’s human nature is omnipresent- is a Monophysite heresy condemned by the council of Chalcedon.
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The Lutheran view of sacramental union is metaphysically simpler than transubstantiation.
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Circumcision is the seal of the righteousness of faith (Rom. 4:11)
But infants don’t have faith.
Therefore, infants can’t receive the seal of that righteousness which is by faith.
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“If, however, being already regenerate and justified, he relapses of his own will into an evil life, assuredly he cannot say, ‘I have not received,’ because of his own free choice to evil he has lost the grace of God, that he had received.” - St. Augustine, On Rebuke and Grace
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In a metaphor, the predicate doesn’t retain its proper signification and is used to describe the subject.
For instance, “I (subject) am the door (predicate)” means “I am like a door because I and a door share X qualities”.
Now, in the Words of Institution, both terms, (1/3)
Jesus: “I am the door.”
Catholic: “He’s not really a door.”
Jesus: “This is my body.”
Catholic: “LITERALLY!!”
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Becoming Arian to own the Prots!
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Unpopular opinion: it is spiritually negligent and even harmful to constantly tell those living in habitual unrepentant sin that they are made in the image of God without clarifying that this image has been greatly defaced by the fall and needs to be renewed by the Holy Ghost.
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“Baptize first the children, and if they can speak for themselves let them do so. Otherwise, let their parents or other relatives speak for them” - Hippolytus, The Apostolic Tradition 21:16
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“He does not say: If you believe or are worthy, you receive My body and blood, but: Take, eat and drink; this is My body and blood.” - Martin Luther (Large Catechism, Sacra. Alter 17)
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the Papists teach and do. For this is idolatry, and such honor belongs alone to God.” - Blessed Martin Luther, Smalcald Articles, pt. II, art. II.26 (3/3)
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“Truly the Sacrifice [of Christ] was offered for all mankind, and was sufficient to save all, but those who enjoy the blessing are the believing only.” - St. John Chrysostom, Comm. on Gal. 2:20
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- baptism saves sinners
- infants are sinners
- therefore, baptize your infants
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If we don’t have the corpse of a 2,000 year old person, they never existed
We’re so over
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“[The devil] turned Adam and Eve into enthusiasts. He led them away from God’s outward Word to spiritualizing and self-pride” - St. Martin Luther, qtd. in Lutheran Study Bible
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honor, make offerings, and establish churches, altars, divine worship, and in still other ways serve them, and regard them as helpers in need [as patrons and intercessors], and divide among them all kinds of help, and ascribe to each one a particular form of assistance, as (2/3)
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🚨 PSA: This is a reductio, guys. I’m making the point that credobaptist logic undermines the circumcision of infants; but infants were obviously circumcised. Therefore, the logic is faulty and doesn’t work against infant baptism either.
Circumcision is the seal of the righteousness of faith (Rom. 4:11)
But infants don’t have faith.
Therefore, infants can’t receive the seal of that righteousness which is by faith.
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Scripture teaches sola fide.
“Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness” - St. Paul, Rom. 4:4-5 NKJV
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@yecksd
I’m sorry to hear that, praying for you my friend.
“When my father and my mother forsake me, Then the Lord will take care of me.”
Psalms 27:10 NKJV
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I hate when I have to search the depths of a church website just to find out whether they are LCMS, WELS, or ELCA
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The church fathers are not needed to convincingly prove infant baptism.
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I hate this meme.
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now that we stopped aborting babies, can we all start baptizing them?
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Many Lutherans want to reclaim the term “catholic”, but are quick to discard the term “evangelical”. We shouldn’t be so willing to concede this beautiful appellation. We are the real evangelicals!
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Today is feast day of St. Luke the Evangelist, whom the Apostle Paul calls the beloved physician!
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An argument for Paedobaptism
P1: The church ought to do God’s will.
P2: But God wills that infants enter the Kingdom of God (Luke 18:16, I Tim. 2:4).
P3: Therefore, the church ought to let the little infants enter the Kingdom of God, and ought not forbid them (Luke 18:16). (1/4)
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@nintenmetalhead
The Lutheran view is just biblical. The body of Christ is distributed with the bread and received into the mouth of all who eat the same. And this either results in the remission of sins, if done in remembrance of him, or results in judgment if the body of Christ is not discerned
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Life if Charles V accepted the Unaltered Augsburg Confession (1530)
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1) do infants need salvation: psalm 51, job 14, john 3, eph 2, rom 5
2) does God desire that infants be saved: matt 18-19, 1 Tim 2
3) does baptism save: john 3, acts 2, Rom 6, Gal 3, Titus 3, 1 pet 3
4) can an infant repent: Joel 1-2
can an infant believe: psalm 22, 71
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St. Irenaeus, Ambrose, Augustine, Hilary, Ambrosiaster, Cyril (of Jer.), Cyril (of Alex.), Epiphanius, Jerome, and John Damascene all interpret John 20:19 as Jesus passing through, or penetrating, locked doors with his true human body. The same is clearly, but not explicitly (1/5
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“They said that he who kept not the Law was cursed, but [Paul] proves that he who kept it was cursed, and he who kept it not, blessed. Again, they said that he who adhered to Faith alone was cursed, but he shows that he who adhered to Faith alone, is blessed.” - John Chrysostom
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“The essence of a thing cannot be separated from that thing; hence, it is impossible for quantity to exist without internal extension; but it is not impossible at least for secondary properties to be separated from the essence by God. Hence, it is possible for there to be (1/4)
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“sacramental, Eucharistic, [and] liturgical” … Ah yes, three distinctively Romish doctrines …
The reason Protestants NOW flee from the Church Fathers is because the EARLY CHURCH is so obviously sacramental, Eucharistic, liturgical…and Catholic.
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"The bread and the wine are not a symbol of the body and blood of Christ—God forbid!—but the actual deified body of the Lord, since the Lord himself said: ‘This is my body,’ not a symbol of my body, and ‘This is my blood,’ not a symbol of my blood" - John Damascene, De Fide Orth.
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“And there are three that bear witness on earth: the Spirit, the water, and the blood; and these three agree as one” | 1 John 5:8
Johann Gerhard: “By the Spirit is to be understood the ministry of the gospel, which is the ministry of the Spirit, 2 Cor. 3:8; by water, (1/3)
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St. Augustine on the phrase “works of the law”:
“Although, therefore, the apostle seems to reprove and correct those who were being persuaded to be circumcised, in such terms as to designate by the word ‘law’ circumcision itself and other similar legal observances, which
(1/3)
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Orthobros loving inserting the word “alone” until it comes to justification.
Catholics: From the Father and the Son.
Orthodox: From the Father alone.
Protestants: wHeReS tHaT iN tHe BiBlE???!?.’.,?.!,?.!,.!.?,!.?,.?,…??,?,?!!
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Furthermore, no one understands by these words that the Lord intends to teach us about bread by a comparison with His body. Therefore, the meaning is not “This bread is like my body” and hence is NOT a metaphor. (3/3)
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"I hate sinーand I commit it. The mind hates it, the flesh desires it, but I am in both" - St. Ambrose of Milan, On Jacob and the Happy Life, bk. I, 4.15
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“‘The cup of blessing which we bless, is it not a communion of the Blood of Christ?’ [I Cor. x:16] Very persuasively spoke he, and awfully. For what he says is this: ‘This which is in the cup is that which flowed from His side, and of that do we partake.’” - St. John Chrysostom
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namely, “This” (i.e., the bread which was beforehand blessed) and “body” both retain their proper signification. For that which Jesus held was truly bread and the body is said to be that body “which is given for you” on the cross, namely, the true human body of Christ. (2/3)
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I hate to break it to y’all but trying to convince me that Scripture is unintelligible is not a good apologetic.
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“that the sacred canon of Scripture, both of the Old and New Testament, is confined within its own limits, and that it stands so absolutely in a superior position to all later letters of the bishops, that about it we can hold no manner of doubt or disputation whether what (1/3)
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“No explicit divine command is given that Transylvanians should be baptized; therefore no Transylvanian should be baptized. No explicit command is given that the Eucharist should be offered to women. Should it therefore not be offered to them? But just as…
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Baptists condemning uncontested historic Christian beliefs (e.g., infant bapt., baptismal regen., real apostasy, etc) as blasphemy will never not be funny and can’t be taken seriously lol.
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"It is therefore faith alone which justifies, and yet the faith which justifies is not alone: just as it is the heat alone of the sun which warms the earth, and yet in the sun it is not alone, because it is constantly conjoined with light." - John Calvin, Acts of the Council (1/2
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account. He that is an infant is released in baptism from the chain which bound his father. He who is old enough to have discernment is set free from the chain of his own or another's sin by the blood of Christ.” (Against the Pelagians, bk. III:18) (4/4)
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Melanchthon on the impossibility of saving faith coexisting with mortal sin:
“[I]t is impossible for these two to exist at the same time, an evil conscience, that is, the intention of committing sin, and faith, which is trust in the mercy of God which has been promised for (1/3)
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“If you live according to the flesh, you will die;” - St. Paul, Rom. viii:13
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It’s really that simple.
@nintenmetalhead
The Lutheran view is just biblical. The body of Christ is distributed with the bread and received into the mouth of all who eat the same. And this either results in the remission of sins, if done in remembrance of him, or results in judgment if the body of Christ is not discerned
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It seems futile to debate infant baptism before establishing baptismal regeneration and original sin. Is that just me?
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@RefrmdCatholic
Anachronism.
There's nothing confessed in this creed that necessarily requires or even implies baptismal regeneration.
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the fact that atheism has dropped the intellectual facade and has literally just devolved into hedonism convinces me that there is a God
what is up with people under 25 on here who are like anti-weed, anti-sex, anti-atheism it’s too late for your parents to like you bud
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“Do not despise the writings of the old faithful church fathers, the writings of a Luther, Chemnitz, Quenstedt, Gerhard, H. Müller, etc. Otherwise you disobey the Holy Spirit, who commands you: ‘Do not despise prophecy’ [that is, exposition of Scripture].” - CFW Walther
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“Since, therefore, the entire Scriptures, the prophets, and the Gospels, can be clearly, unambiguously, and harmoniously understood by all, although all do not believe them… those persons will seem truly foolish who blind their eyes to such a clear demonstration” - St. Irenaeus,
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The Apostle teaches closed communion:
“Are not those who eat of the sacrifices partakers of the altar?” - St. Paul’s, I Cor. x:18
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“It is to the canonical Scriptures alone that I am bound to yield such implicit subjection as to follow their teaching, without admitting the slightest suspicion that in them any mistake or any statement intended to mislead could find a place.” - St. Augustine, Ep. 82.24
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Look, I honestly do like the Reformed and I appreciate the work of many of their theologians; but it is simply the case that we disagree in important ways. The only way to get around that is either by using intentionally vague language or by the compromise someone’s theology.
I did the thing Lutherans hated most: argued for Reformed-Lutheran unity. The official LCMS account felt a disturbance in the force and came for me 😂
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You should convert to Christianity because it’s true.
I should just convert to Christianity at this point. I have almost nothing in common with the atheists anymore.
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Ah yes, since words don’t make sense, I’ll just read one million more words that do make sense to tell me what the other nonsensical words mean. Thanks for you words of advice!
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Is it your understanding, that as an EO, you are only praying in the “direction” of an icon or crucifix as a visual aid, whether commemorative or decorative? As far as I’m aware, the EO theology of icons claims much more than that.
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“The Calvinists thus define the sacramental eating: that we receive by the mouth the bread, which is the Sacrament, i.e., only the sign, of the absent body of Christ. We (the Lutherans) thus describe the sacramental eating: that we receive with the mouth the bread which is (1/2)
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danger presses. For it is better that they should be unconsciously sanctified than that they should depart unsealed and uninitiated. A proof of this is found in the Circumcision on the eighth day, which was a sort of typical seal, and was conferred on children before they (3/4)
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“‘You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church.’ What means, ‘Upon this rock I will build my Church’? Upon this faith; upon this that has been said, ‘You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God. Upon this rock,’ says He, ‘I will build my Church.’” - St. Augustine,
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“Great is the Baptism that lies before you: a ransom to captives; a remission of offenses; a death of sin; a new-birth of the soul; a garment of light; a holy indissoluble seal; a chariot to heaven; the delight of Paradise; a welcome into the kingdom; the gift of adoption!” (1/2)
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from the words, ‘Drink from it, all of you,’ we make a correct deduction regarding women, so also on account of the words, ‘baptize all nations,’ we argue irrefutably regarding [the baptism of] infants.” - St. David Hollatz, Examen
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