kklas
@kklas_
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A dev. Building web3 stuff @kuna_labs
Joined February 2017
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Current state of crypto - nothing scales and everyone is happy. Well not everyone. I know that folks at
@Mysten_Labs
are hard at work to solve this once and for all.
In this thread I will share my high level thoughts on Sui's design and why it's so special. 👇
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Recently I discovered a critical loss of funds vulnerability on a Solana SC that would have affected multiple apps with ~$30M being at risk. If it was exploited it would have been the third largest SC exploit on Solana.
Yet none of the affected apps want to give me a bounty...
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The ultimate Move article is here!
It's an in-depth look into Move, a novel programming language for smart contract development, and how it compares to the existing Rust-based model used on Solana.
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This is why you have situations like the Mango exploit happen where the exploiter will first steal the funds and then start negotiating. There's no proper incentive to report.
Next time I see a code smell on a Solana SC I'm not even bothering looking into it. Good luck...
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This is a crazy stupid thing to do.
The message you're basically sending is that you'd rather get hacked than have critical bugs reported to you.
Because what incentive does anybody have for researching, and reporting vulnerabilities?
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Interested in learning how smart contract programming on Solana works? This article I've just published has you covered
It's aimed at devs with no Solana smart contract experience and covers all the important concepts to get you started!
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Exciting news,
#Sui
community! I'm thrilled to announce the release of sui-client-gen -- a tool for generating TS SDKs for Sui smart contracts that will remove boilerplate and save you time.
It leverages Move to deliver these three powerful features.
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So we did a direct send to wallet distribution. Here's the technical summary / why we love the fast path:
- no smart contracts, just PTBs
- 600 addresses, 6 TXs
- total gas cost 0.77 SUI (eff. $2.16 per 1000 addresses)
- 99.5% of gas cost is storage (which users reclaim)
Kai vault depositors check your wallets.
Scallop airdrop has been distributed. 🪂
In total, we've distributed 15k $SCA. Enjoy!
Details 👉
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It feels like Sui is already the best chain out there and
@Mysten_Labs
is only just finished doing the warm-up stretches.
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1/ Why it's important for Solana to get on board with Move (full article coming later this week).
There are two reasons 👇
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It's funny to me how Solana is literally capping out *in the bear market*, people believe tweaking the scheduler, networking protocol, or gas fee implementation can meaningfully improve the capacity for the damand that's coming, and that HFT engineers have the right skillset to
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1/ Yes, many discussions around programming languages and execution runtimes but what is the most killer feature of Sui is actually the parallelization of consensus IMO and I would love to see more discussions about that.
Neither Solana nor Aptos seem to have a proper answer.
@BabaOnChain
@foxriverdevops
The Aptos vs Solana dive is focused only on execution. Other parts of the pipeline (mempool -> consensus -> exec -> Merkle Tree update) are also bottlenecks. It's worth looking into.
Sui parallelizes the entire pipeline, not just execution, while moving MT update to snapshotting
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It’s now possible, for MetaMask users, to bridge and start using Sui without installing any additional wallets!
Shoutout to
@0xairtx
from
@AftermathFi
for tenaciously pushing for this with Wormhole!
🌊 Are you thinking about starting your
#Sui
journey but not sure how?
Thanks to
@wormholecrypto
and Sui Snap, all you need to catch the
#Suinami
is your
@Metamask
wallet.
Let us guide you through the process and get you on a Suirfboard. 👇
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If I was ever doing an airdrop I'd definitely consider addresses that were SPAMing in the first N epochs. This is very grassroots.
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Sui already has the best dev-x in crypto and, while only a few of us see it now, it will have extrodinary dev-x within 6-12 months as these foundations that are being put in fully fruitify.
And I mean as a dev platform in general, the notion of “blockchain” will mostly disappear.
Ok now that I see what this is referring to I am crazy impressed. Embedding Move generic type instantiation and type inference in the TypeScript type system: . Ridiculous type hacking that paves the way for even better TS client interaction with Sui/Move
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Thanks
@orca_so
for stepping up and providing the bounty! Shame on others who just ignored my messages after I helped them patch the bug.
4/ In November 2022, a White Hat hacker reported a critical bug in the spl-token-swap program used by multiple Solana protocols.
Orca’s Governance Council granted the approval of a one-time, special 100K USDC bounty reward for the White Hat.
Context:
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SUI and USDT vaults are live!!
Kai Finance is expanding with the launch of SUI and USDT Vaults. 🚀
With a total of 3 Vaults now live, we're supporting all the major lending assets on
@Scallop_io
and maximizing your earnings through auto-compounding. 🌊
Head over to and start earning!
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This show / hide wallet extension sidebar is something that should be supported by the wallet standard and all wallets.
After so much love for the side panel, the devs couldn't help themselves.
Toggle the wallet side panel directly from the exchange. No pop out. No wallet connect. No friction.
🤌
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Opinion - Rust is not a great language for smart contract development even though at first glance it may appear so. And I think guys at Diem made a really good (and not at all obvious) decision to design a new language from scratch (Move) instead of going with Rust. 1/
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We've just published an AMM smart contract built for Sui. If you want to get a taste for what it's like to build on Sui it's worth checking out.
The implementation notes in the README have a few technical details I've jolted down about Coins being differentiated statically in Sui
Building DeFi on Sui just got easier! We've open sourced a constant-product (UniswapV2-style) AMM smart contract for Sui! You can find it in our repo
#Sui
#SuiEcosystem
#Suinami
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I'm very happy to see this getting merged. Thanks
@acheroncrypto
for doing the code review and continuing the effort.
For a bit of context, this is a PR I've opened 1 year ago and it solves a few fundamental issues with Anchor IDL generation that aren't really possible with the
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Sui speed and scaling plan, further oversimplified for people like me:
🏁 Goal 1: Make Sui the best chain <— we are here
🏁 Goal 2: Make Sui the bestest chain
🏁 Endgame: Make sui the bestestest chain
Sui speed and scaling plan, further oversimplified for people like me:
🏁 Goal 1: Make Sui very fast
🏁 Goal 2: Make Sui very fast even when millions of people are sending txns at the same time
🏁 Endgame: Make it easy and cheap for validators to scale the above
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Scalability means being able to increase (or decrease) the capacity of a system based on changing demand. And the reason why designing such systems is tough is because, in order for the system to be truly scalable, there musn't be asingle component that has an upper bound on
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There are no closed source Move smart contracts
I'm happy to share my new project
"SuiGPT Decompiler"
SuiGPT Decompiler is an AI-powered move decompiler pipeline that can convert any given Sui-move module bytecode back into easy-to-read source code.
Additionally, in the bottom right corner, you can chat with the SuiGPT
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@armaniferrante
@B3nHawkins
(long post) It's difficult because it's a research problem, but it's in fact been solved (elastic blockchain scaling). The networking is not the bottleneck anymore and neither is execution because you can split the work across multiple machines. So yea, this coming sooner than
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I have to say I really like what guys at
@Mysten_Labs
are doing with their integration of Move. They’ve shown how programing language features can be leveraged not only to make developing smart contracts safer and more ergonomic... 4/
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BTW the Sui debugger Sentio released is awesome. It shows you the whole stack trace for any TX from its digest, including even the function calls within the VM and their args and return values.
Would love to see a flamegraph with gas cost here + source code / decompiled modules.
We're thrilled to announce the launch of Sentio Dash and Sentio Debugger on Sui. This provides a new data and dev tooling stack for builders develop their apps the easier way. The platform is built by
@sentioxyz
on
@SuiNetwork
in partnership with
@Mysten_Labs
.
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If you want to take a deeper look at Move, Sui's programming model, and how it compares to Solana, check out this in-depth article I wrote earlier
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1/ Lots of people are asking what I think about Scrypto and whether I will write an article about it.
I can't say much without taking a deeper look, but my impression is that Scrypto relies on introducing a lot of new concepts to achieve resource-based programmability.
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Open sourcing is the way! We have more stuff in the pipeline that we’re excited to publish soon.
@kuna_labs
implemented and open sourced a high quality AMM smart contract in idiomatic Sui Move. They also engaged with Sui creators on resolving early issues.
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In smart contract development, vast majority of time is spent thinking about how things could go wrong. Move eliminates many of those cases which is why using Move reduces development time multifold!
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@b1ackd0g
@0xMert_
@DavidTiczon
@captainsolana
I do indeed claim that Sui is just better at everything. Aptos is also probably better tech than Solana and is a contest, but Sui is in a league of its own. Happy to debate it.
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When you have a system like this, in a market with an increasing demand for quality blockspace, in a field where other solutions aren't able to scale to meet the demand, it becomes clear what's going to happen.
Sui is an absolute rocket ship.
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I'm telling you, there's something truly special happening here, and those of us immersted in it feel that intensly.
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It’s amazing to see how you guys come in and just start shaping and setting direction for the whole industry! The whole space is getting elevated thanks to the work
@EvanWeb3
@kostascrypto
@b1ackd0g
@GDanezis
and
@EmanAbio
are leading. Im taking first row seats for this one!
I committed a long time ago to fix this world, some exchanges ignored me back then, now they knock the door cause they know what
@EvanWeb3
has built. Crypto is going to be the safest place for your wealth, we crossed the event horizon! All together
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The Sui Snap has been allowlisted and can now be used with MetaMask on Sui!
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For a deep dive into the inner workings of Sui's consensus algorithm check out this very insightufl talk by
@GDanezis
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If you look at blockchains out there, some will do some things well, some more than others, but then fall flat in other areas. What makes Sui special is that it does everything really well.
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On Sui you can take a flash loan and do arbitrage between two AMM pools fully from the client side without implementing a seprate smart contract.
Is there any other chain that can do that?
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Well done team!
Installing multiple wallets and managing seed phrases is a hassle. Snaps are a cool tech that make it possible for
@MetaMask
users to interact with any chain with a single wallet.
And now it works with Sui! Looking forward to Snaps coming out of developer preview!
Today we're announcing the release of the Sui MetaMask Snap! 🦊
This Snap allows MetaMask users to connect to any Sui app and sign transactions just like they would with a native Sui wallet.
Bring your Sui app to 30M+
@MetaMask
users with one simple integration ↓
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A really good thread highlighting Sui's key features.
IMO the biggest thing about Sui is the fact that the entire processing pipeline (including consensus) is fully parallelizable. You want 100 Gbps per validator? No problem, just add 10 x 10 Gbps machines. 1/3
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For further reading on how different parts of Sui integrate and why they work so well together check out Sam's thread:
Expressivity and low-level efficiency often seem like they're fundamentally at odds. When we can give programmers a useful abstraction without paying for it with an efficiency loss, we call this a zero cost abstraction and consider it a win. However, I think the holy grail for a
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So even the smallest part of the Sui system, even if it gives the smallest advantage, when combined with all others it becomes a sizeable advantage. And when you build on top of that it becomes a large advantage. And the advantages compound over time and it becomes an
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To illustrate that, imagine a system being a bucket. In order to fill the bucket with water, all sides of it need to reach the same height. If one side is shorter it will create a leak and the water can rise up to that level only.
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Sui on the other hand doesn't have this limitation. Move allows for objects to be wrapped and present a type safe API to interact with them. So there are no leaky abstractions or upper bounds on programmability.
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I'm very excited about this one! It opens up so many new possibilities.
For example, it makes it possible for users to sign Sui transactions without installing any wallets since passkeys are natively supported by all major platforms.
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When you start composing smart contracts on Solana, every smart contract that you layer will increase the number of accounts that you have to pass into the transaction. So you reach a limit on number of accounts or limits of mental overhead due to increased complexity.
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Here's how you can build a generic smart contract wallet on Sui:
- have a wallet object with send to object
- tx initiator declares which objects will be used in the tx and moves them to an escrow object
- build a transaction block to Move compiler (or any other similar format...
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It's a result of a full month worth of research and contains deep insights on Move you'll not find anywhere else.
It involved me reading a bunch of whitepapers, creating prototype smart contracts, and getting answers on the details of Move's design from
@b1ackd0g
directly.
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I really love this paragraph:
> Alice should be *afraid of* […] submitting multiple txes […] or would incur the risk of paying `N` times
While some chains struggle to include the tx even once, Sam is threatening to include it multiple times if you spam.
Some broader reflections on congestion and spam:
If the highest expected value strategy for Alice to get transaction `T` accepted is to spam (either with multiple copies of `T`, or with distinct transactions that accomplish the same thing), you have a problem.
Once you've
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Sui is a system that doesn't have a single point in it that would cause it to have an upper bound on scalability. I've looked through and through and haven't found any. If there is one, can someone tell me what it is?
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I agree. Move on Solana is a marketing gimmick mostly IMO. There's practically no benefits to it over Rust once you throw away the verifier and compile it to LLVM. Just a different syntax, and arguably Rust syntax is better in this case.
@dj_d_sol
Does anyone actually want it on Solana? I dont think itll really ever get used. Same with Solang
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No matter how much you throw a it, it will be able to increase the capacity in order to meet the demand. You can increase validator capacity by adding more cores. Not enough? You can add more machines. More machines more throughput. Everything is parallelizable down to an object,
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And top level callers need to know about implementation details of underlying smart contracts. This is a leaky abstraction and an upper bound on programmability.
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And that's where the magic starts to happen. Because when a system is so well integrated, where every component amplifies the other, you get something truly unique. It chagnes the way developers build on it and users interact with it.
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Very cool. Can confirm this will work on other chains that use Move. Until bytecodes diverge that is, which is soon by the looks of it...
🤝 We’re thrilled to partner with
@Aptos_Labs
to release Revela Decompiler - the first ever open-source tool to decompile Move bytecode back to its original source code.
Revela is made open-source, find it at Verichains GitHub:
Revela is also
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So all of the pieces need to scale individually and scale together. And blockchains being very complex systems consisting of complex individual components, designing a scalable blockchain is exceptionally tough. If just one piece falls short, nothing is going to scale.
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What will it take to get there? Can Ethereum / Solana / Aptos / Sui reach that scale?
That's the discussion I want to see more of.
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There could be a number of layers of smart contracts behind an API but it is totally transparent to the top level caller.
And this is just one example out of many of things that Sui does really well.
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When the low level components of your system are orthogonal and composable, then all of the higher order tools and infrastructure you build on it will also have that quality.
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Ok then, what is Solana’s plan for scaling?
BREAKING:
#Solana
DEVS ARE HAPPY WITH THE STATE OF THE CHAIN AND HAVE CEASED ANY WORK TO IMPROVE IT.
Follow me for more quality news.
PS: Don't get me wrong, Sui has great tech. But take any talk of panacea with a grain of salt, as usual. *Particularly* when it opens like that.
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MFW I have killer modules for the Advanced Move Features track but can't submit because I'm a judge 😭😭
👋Hey
#SuiOverflow
builders - we're curious about what you're building!
Share what you're submitting in the comments👇we have some smart people watching this post, and they may say hi 👀
And don't forget – submissions are due May 31 at 11:59 p.m. UTC!
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Further still, blockchains are not only systems for data processing and consistency, but also a programming platform for composable digital assets. This means that you also have to think about the upper bounds for programmability.
Let me illustrate this with an example.
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What a terrible look. Don't know much about Pontem but what kind of a weak project you have to be if you're getting pressured by Aptos like this.
Bunch of these project on Aptos seem like they have some lucrative deals with them to build there.
Hey
@Aptos_Network
, I’m disappointed to learn that you pressured
@PontemNetwork
into removing
@tnowacki
+
@damirka
+ Shayan Sanjideh as speakers at , as well eliminating Sui Foundation from the organizations participating in this community-organized event.
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Interesting Fact: ChatGPT has capabilities that might assist in understanding the structure of Move bytecode.
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I'm starting to enjoy being on the sidelines on these CT discussions more and more. They take away my energy and don't really accomplish much in the big picture...
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@0xrooter
@suilendprotocol
Agreed. I'd say best tech wins though when it's an order of magnitude improvement though (e.g. jquery -> react + with capacity scaling it's a no contest really IMO).
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I love the passion of Solana builders!
Although I’ve been critical of Solana lately, I hope you guys can appreciate I do this not of ill intention but so that it can improve. I still think it’s really cool tech and has a great community! I want to see crypto succeed in general.
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Super interesting projects in this one! Exciting!
We’re excited to announce the latest cohort of researchers who are the recipients of the Sui Academic Research Awards!
This cohort is receiving $500,000 in funding to further push the boundaries of blockchain innovation.
Read the summary of proposals:
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There seems to be a big misunderstanding about what the main benefits of Move are. Move is *not* just a new syntax or a DSL with resources. It's much more than that. It offers an entirely new programming model.
Soon I'll be releasing an article covering this topic in depth.
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They've left me on read for a week
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@blockvisionhq
@b1ackd0g
@0xripleys
Aww yess! No more jumping between inputs and calls sections!
Next step is to show the actual values of input args and return values (hints: dev inspect, sui-replay).
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@b1ackd0g
I’m getting
@kai_finance_sui
smart contracts open sourced asap just so that I can see this in action
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I'm kind of starting to find it funny that we do all these discussions on consensus, execution, scaling, etc. here like anyone of us can understand anything properly or they will achieve anything.
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Chapter 2. is a summary of Solana's programming model while chapter 3. introduces Sui Move and its programming model. Chapter 4. then goes on to explain how the type and resource safety work in Move.
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This is really good news. Googling for Solana related questions gives you zero useful results right now. I’ve even made a habit not to bother googling. Finally this is going to change now.
We've done it 🎉🎉🎉
Thanks to all that helped spread the word. The upcoming Solana StackExchange will help all future developers and push this space even further
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Now I wonder where the Alameda balance sheet leak came from.
SBF probably assumed that the chances of a bank run were extremely low but the leak tipped the balance.
If only his inner circle new about the scam and the books were fixed, who actually leaked it?
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@redacted_noah
You're welcome :). I wish it was merged sooner.
You should check out what I'm doing with sui-client-gen, 10x more insane.
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@samlafer
@Mysten_Labs
I'm not building a univ2 fork I'm building a yearn finance clone thank you very much.
But things are not so black and white. I would counter this by saying: is trying to build "the next big thing" all the time the right way to approach things in life?
Should I raise VC money for
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Shout-out to
@DuneAnalytics
, what an awesome product you've built. No frills and on point - the things it does, it does really well. I really dig the UI style too.
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But I still think these bounties should be higher. Basically what you’re going to get is insted of reporting vulns people will just take the funds hostage and then negotiate to get 5 - 10% and return the rest. Treasury plugs the hole.
This is already what’s happening a lot.
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None of the web3 apps so far are at true web2 scale yet, and existing large web2 apps are not using blockchains because they cannot accommodate their number of users.
When will we see apps opting for blockchain as a pure technical choice (and not marketing / legal arbitrage)?
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@Austin_Federa
@tuanpmhd
@aeyakovenko
@0xMert_
@bennybitcoins
It's explicitly not covered by the Foundation in this case unfortunately
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Can confirm. The UX and devx of the fast path can’t be understood by looking at some numbers on a paper.
Btw, this system effectively moves the bottleneck from the consensus layer (we have no control over) to the RPC layer (we have full control over). This is huge.
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