Inviting History
@invitinghistory
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A home for history! Tidbits, analysis, and more. History enthusiast, sometimes writer. Contact: DM or annagibsonhistory @ gmail
Joined February 2021
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@lingerie_addict
Goodness, people forget empathy so easily. Of course someone is upset that something they made for another person was tossed out! Nobody -has- to keep all items gifted to them, but it doesn't mean the person who gave them the piece can't be hurt when they find out.
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Historical Barbie thread! It's time to finally dig into the 18th century, along with the early 19th century since there isn't much there and I feel like combining eras for my own sake. First up: "THE" 18th century Barbie... Marie Antoinette!
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Always check the sources of your sources. A research rabbit hole led me to a forum where users uncovered a fashion historian's article in a peer-reviewed journal which cites a children's Marie Antoinette diary novel as evidence for a claim, thinking it was a genuine diary.
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Historical Barbie thread! Let's tackle Barbie and the medieval era. First up, the simply named: "Medieval Lady Barbie." Her sleeves are everything. The gown looks quite dark in the promo photo, but in reality it's a lighter jewel blue.
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Since it's apparently
#WorldToiletDay
: Contrary to popular myth, the palace of Versailles did have toilets and bathrooms. At the time, bathrooms were luxury rooms dedicated to bathing, while toilet facilities were kept in separate spaces. (contd)
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Two vintage Jeanne d'Arc fantaisie cards from my collection.
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The restoration of the "grand pineapple" wallpaper that once adorned a room in the private apartments of Marie Antoinette. Originally made by the Jouy factory! It was discovered that the Musée de la toile de Jouy had a section preserved--meaning it could be reconstructed.
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Sometimes you have to just need to buy an enamel pin based on a watercolor painting done by Anastasia Nikolaevna of Russia in 1914 for your history-inspired pin collection.
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Another citation rabbit hole for the infamous "I'm coming home, don't wash" quotation, attributed to being written by Napoleon to Josephine. This time, it shows up Andrew Roberts' biography, often called the "definitive" biography on Napoleon. What is his source? Well...
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In 1772, it was discovered that the women of the wardrobe for Marie Antoinette had been committing financial abuse by claiming expenditure for excessive amounts of items (4 pairs of shoes a week, about 12 feet of ribbon per day for her hair, etc) and pocketing the money or items.
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A costume for the Lilac Fairy Queen in Sleeping Beauty, Teatro alla Scalla, Milan, 1966. Collection CNSC/Rudolf Nureyev Foundation. Photograph by Pascal François/CNCS. Via:
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Oh look, another account sharing blatant misinformation about Nancy Green. The woman in this photo is not Nancy Green; the logo used wasn't created until 1935, Green died in 1923. Green was never a millionaire, by contrast she had to work as a housekeeper in her old age.
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I want to see the "faux diary historical fiction" trend come back. It got very big in the 90s, and even trickled into the 2000s (and even the 2010s) with a few different series. I'll even be okay with them not being done with hardcovers and deckle edge paper...
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Why am I only now finding out that the (in?)famous painting by Boucher depicting a woman using a bourdaloue was designed to be placed behind a "normal" portrait of the same woman?
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People in 18th century Europe washed regularly. Aristocrats in particular would have the privilege of servants to fill their tubs, in addition to the type of regular basin washing that people were expected to do.
no way.... did we just get a self-aware romance fantasy manhwa where the entire premise actually calls out on how the characters and setting that are inspired by european aristocracy are more likely to have horrendous hygiene behind all of the opulence beauty... I'M SOLD 😭
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No, Marie Antoinette didn't have a fake farm where she pretended to be a peasant, either. Another myth which takes the Hameau out of its context. Newer research since then has bumped the timeline a bit, the "fake peasant" myth does pre-date the Bourbon Restoration.
To paraphrase someone from a French history forum, the Sofia Coppola film really did the Petit Trianon & hameau a disservice. Portraying it as a space where Marie Antoinette was sprawled out on the grass, rooting through strawberries, etc; pretty aesthetic, not reality.
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@westeawest
@fakehistoryhunt
Not exactly. The thread is pretty much all misinformation or exaggerated. People got lice but that's not why wigs were worn; servants cleaned Versailles all year; some people peed in corners but it was seen as nasty/frowned upon; people washed themselves regularly. 1/2
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I achieved one of my "things I'd like to do before I die" events today by getting to see one of the "Breathe" ballgowns from Ever After in person. The accompanying text noted that this is "the" ballgown for many people and they are not wrong.
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The diary of Lucile Carter, who was 13 when she boarded the Titanic with her family. April 14th's entry reads: Accident happened in night; ship struck iceberg; we are all in lifeboats; in morning we are taken on the Carpathia."
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Here we have the vastly underrated Empress Josephine Barbie. While the Marie Antoinette Barbie is one I want for obvious reasons, this one I want to obsess over all the sumptuous details.
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@westeawest
@fakehistoryhunt
I'll add that it's really frustrating for people to spread the falsehood that getting lice means someone is dirty. Getting lice is not related to hygiene whatsoever. The myth that lice = dirty is still used today to perpetuate stereotypes aimed at certain socioeconomic classes.
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No, people weren't just defecating & urinating in the halls of Versailles. Some of the ways people at Versailles could take care of business: closestools, bourdaloues (designed for women who needed to pee!); chamber pots; and a design for an 18th century latrine.
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@westeawest
@fakehistoryhunt
France producing perfumes wasn't because "they had to find a way to hide the smells!" but (simplified) b/c abundant raw materials in Grasse amounted to a specialized perfume region, combined with the French's court penchant for all things fashionable, including perfumed products.
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The hameau wasn't a fake village, nor did Marie Antoinette pretend to be a poor milkmaid (or shepherdess or peasant) there. The only 'pretend' that went on the hameau was the brief ability to act like a non-French royal here, where she could enjoy looser etiquette & privacy.
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On June 8th, 1795, Louis Charles de France, the second son of Louis XVI and Marie Antoinette, died while imprisoned in the Paris Temple. The physician who autopsied his body wrote that he died from “the terrible treatment, body and soul, that the infant had endured for so long.”
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A miniature portrait, circa 1660-1670, featuring novelty overlays to change the woman's appearance. Set to be auctioned by For-Auction in their Robert Allan Collection auction.
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I know I shouldn't ever look at social media comments for posts related to Marie Antoinette, but I always do. The latest "What?!?!" is someone who claimed Marie Antoinette was a commoner forced to marry Louis XVI.
Pictured: her simple commoner childhood home.
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Giving the child a poufed up bonnet so she can match her mom's hair is absolutely hilarious and cute at the same time. Image: A portrait of a mother and child by an unidentified artist, circa late 1770s/early 1780s.
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Next up is a Bob Mackie treat: "Madame du Barbie," released in 1997. Her stylized look reminds me of 1930s-1940s old Hollywood period films, lots of glitz and glam.
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@BRATZULA
Aunt Jemima is a fictional character. The pancake recipe was created by Chris Rutt. The "50,000 boxes" is a marketing story, no evidence for it. Green was one woman hired to play the existing fictional character, which was based on the "mammy" stereotype.
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The bathroom in the apartments of Madame du Barry at Versailles, before (left) and after (right) the recent restoration. The apartments were restored to their original 1770 appearance as closely as possible. More info about the work:
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On May 7th, 1770, Marie Antoinette was officially handed over to France on an island in the middle of the river Rhine, near the French city of Strausbourg. A special structure was built for the occasion) which was divided into three sections—Austrian, "neutral," and French.
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This painting depicting "Pompon," said to be a dog of Marie Antoinette, just sold at Sotheby's for about $280,000--far above the $5000 estimate. This portrait has gone unsold at other auctions for years, presumably due to the lack of provenance or confirmation to its veracity.
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@westeawest
@fakehistoryhunt
Versailles likely didn't smell amazing, but no confined space with thousands of people will. There were public latrines, bathrooms, chamber pots, handful of running toilets, and running plumbing. The average person who used perfume did it to smell nicer, not to cover up a stench.
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Duchess Emma is from the 2003 "Portrait Collection," a series of three dolls designed to evoke historical portraits. Duchess Emma is inspired by British portraits from the 1780s.
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The users also linked to a website which shows that this claim was then cited by someone else writing an article on the topic, so the original historian's decision to ignore that this is a children's novel, not her real diary, has now led someone else to spread misinformation.
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A fanciful image of Marie Antoinette and her children by Mary Gow, 1908. Held in the Tate collection.
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Fair Valentine Barbie was a Hallmark edition Barbie, from a set of three other "romantic" themed Barbies. If her gown looks familiar, it's because--
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The Romeo and Juliet ballet Barbie. Her outfit is so pretty and soft, and I love that it was a ballet doll without the typical tutu!
hello everyone, please share a photo of your favorite Barbie.
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Another rare Ken for these threads! This was a planned set of Marie Antoinette and Louis for the "Little Theatre" series, but it was never released. Someone was able to take photos of the prototypes a few years ago:
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@hewasbasement
He didn't. This is a myth. There are no archival letters or documents where he tells Josephine (or anyone else) this. It's an unsourced anecdote which was also attached to other historical couples in the mid-1900s.
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Gotta pee in the 18th (or 19th) century? Get yourself a bourdaloue! A female chamber pot designed to allow women to easily take care of going
#1
. Also known as "you may know someone who bought this labeled as an antique 'gravy boat' and used it for the absolute wrong thing."
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Here we have "Secret of the Three Teardrops" Barbie, a Grolier edition doll who is also featured in a full Grolier book. This Barbie isn't actually from the 18th century--she's wearing an 18th century costume to a masquerade and ends up having to solve a historical mystery.
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Working on something, and unweaving one of the less tangible myths about Marie Antoinette that I think the Coppola film helped (not intentionally) passively solidify--this notion of Marie Antoinette in stasis, always a helpless foreign teen in the strict gilded cage of the court.
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When will Marie Antoinette dramas be brave enough to depict Louis XVI ripping open the windows when Marie Antoinette's fainted after giving birth? Campan: "The windows were stopped up; the King opened them with a strength which his affection for the Queen gave him at the moment."
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On New Year’s Day in 1772, Marie Antoinette finally spoke a few words to Madame du Barry after refusing to address the favorite for a long stretch of time. Her refusal, spurred on by her French aunts, had caused a semi-crisis due to the snubbing of the king's favorite.
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The takes about Titanic being a ship "for the wealthy" have been popping up because of the submarine, and idk how to tell people that the vast majority of Titanic's passengers were third-class passengers traveling to/from America. It was a passenger liner, not a luxury yacht.
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Time for the late 18th/early 19th century, since there's only 2 actual dolls & a few fashions. First up, "French Lady Barbie," modeled after Napoleonic empire fashion. She's from the "Great Eras" collection.
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@AldenBrien
"Should we make sure our costume department knows how to make corsets and undergarments that are properly fitted? No no, best to ban them entirely." The inability to construct undergarments says a lot about the costume departments for these shows, tbh...
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Her box is designed to evoke a portrait frame, and she's displayed in front of a landscape for maximum aristocratic countryside aesthetic.
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Next up is Barbie "Princess of the French Court," from the "Princess Dolls of the World" line. The second image is another stock photo I found which has different details than the final doll-perhaps she's the prototype version?
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I have dolls on the brain now! I love the positioning of the doll in this portrait of a girl with a doll by Carl Christian Vogel von Vogelstein. Typically dolls in portraits of the upper classes are facing forward to show off their exquisite miniature clothing, but not so here.
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She also usually goes for under $600, compared to the Marie Antoinette Barbie, whose prices have crept towards $1500-2000 over the past decade. Of course, $600 for a Barbie is nothing to sneeze at, but one can dream of stumbling upon Josephine at a garage sale for $50...
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Fair Valentine Barbie was inspired by this portrait of Mademoiselle Guimard by Jacques-Louis David. Guimard was a ballerina who you may remember from my threads about Joseph Bologne, as she was one of the women who signed the petition against his appointment at the Opera.
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One of the claims in the "Naked Cooks, Excrement, Rats: The Secretly Disgusting History of Royal Palaces," article is that James IV/I never bathed, and subsequently the rooms he occupied were lice-filled. Is this true? Let's take a look...
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I'm not sure how much I will be covering the film "Jeanne du Barry," but someone sent me a clip from the film and the way they have styled Marie Antoinette (played by Pauline Pollmann) is just about perfect here.
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What's especially frustrating is that the "diary" entry is set in 1769 and contains various inaccuracies ('robes a la creole' show up in the late 1770s; Bertin did not design MA's wedding dress or know her in 1769; etc) that this fashion historian didn't pick up on.
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This doll was inspired by a court portrait of Marie Antoinette, with one rather strange added detail: she's wearing the infamous "Affair of the Necklace" necklace, or rather, a piece based on the most famous version of it. No idea why, a very bizarre thing to add here.
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I found a Youtube scene pack of Pauline Pollmann as Marie Antoinette in Jeanne du Barry (2023) so I took some screenshots to share. From what I've seen, Pollman's Marie Antoinette is the most visually cohesive character in terms of looking historically plausible.
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Working a bit on my book this evening and a line in David Adjmi's "Marie Antoinette" managed to perfectly capture the vibe of what I view as the Coppola-ization of MA in public image. Her hair is being cut for execution, she complains about a scalp cut & a revolutionary says:
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Next we have "Patriot Barbie" from the "American Stories" collection. According to her accompanying story, she hosts the "Liberty Ball" in Philadelphia and also collects food/blankets for Washington's troops. She's wearing a military inspired jacket over a red gown.
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Every once in a while I like to think about how Aurora in The Australian Ballet's 'The Sleeping Beauty' sleeps in a Fabergé egg inspired bed.
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An engraving of Marie Antoinette, published under Sevestre-Leblond, circa 1774.
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A very pinkified George Washington Barbie, released as an FAO Schwartz exclusive.
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And what happens here is that people claiming Napoleon wrote this will pull up this book and say "Aha! Andrew Roberts, who wrote THE book on Napoleon, includes it! It must be true!" Not knowing that they're being misled by Roberts' very dodgy source usage.
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A portrait of a young woman with her tutor by an unidentified artist, 19th century. Note that she's clearly interested in something other than her lessons on this afternoon!
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No, Napoleon never wrote Josephine and told her not to wash because he'd be home in 3 days. The quote was attributed to various other historical couples before being stuck on Napoleon and Josephine, and there is no actual letter anyone has cited which contains the phrase.
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"Too much and too little or summer cloathing for 1556 & 1796." Published in 1796.
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If cell phones had existed in 1912, people would have taken photos during the sinking. If someone had a period-appropriate camera on them, they probably also would have taken photos during the sinking. That's exactly what happened during the sinking of the SS Vestris in 1928.
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Maybe my disconnect with offense taken at the Marie Antoinette Olympic stuff is that it's not as if they showed MA being brought out on a cart white, hair short and ragged, eyes bloodshot from weeping over leaving her children. It was an exaggerated 1770s rococo lady clad in red.
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When you see articles that are repeating the claim that Louis XIV "only bathed three times in his life," you're reading something traced to a misunderstanding of what these baths were. These were prescribed medical baths by Fagon, which were very hot baths which could scald you.
Louis Auguste, duc de Maine, writing to his mother Madame de Montespan: "M. Fagon scalded me yesterday in the little bath; I hope that he will be more moderate another time, and that I shall not cry so much."
He was referring to a hot medical baths prescribed by Fagon.
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"Colonial Barbie" is also from the American Stories collection. Her vibrant mob cap makes her look more like a French Revolutionary! Her story is that she and her friends secretly celebrate the Declaration of Independence by crafting quilt squares to show support.
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A still from an upcoming film, "Le Déluge," focusing on the royal family during the last days of the monarchy. It will feature Guillaume Canet as Louis XVI and Mélanie Laurent as Marie Antoinette. Current expected release date is sometime in 2023.
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58 years after Marie Antoinette's execution, her daughter, now 72, attempted to leave her sick bed to head to a chapel. "Nothing could stop me from going to the chapel to render to the memory of my mother; I have never failed those duties."
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Titanic survivors Leah Aks and Selena Cook crying after watching a special screening of Titanic (1953) which included specially invited Titanic survivors and their families. From LIFE magazine, May 18, 1953.
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A depiction of a ballet dancer by Jean-Frédéric Schall, 18th century.
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And we absolutely don't know the exact origins of the chemise a la reine (many theories abound, including origins in French colonial elite dress, pastoral country dress, etc) but the idea that Marie Antoinette and Rose Bertin 'designed them' is not supported by any evidence.
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Ohhh there is a whole book about ballet during the French Revolution! I've already requested it from the library network. I'm so lucky to be in the same network as some great university libraries!
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In the BBC's "Filthy Cities: Revolutionary Paris" episode, it claims that "The English writer Horace Walpole wrote that the approach to Versailles was magnificent. But the squalor inside was unspeakable." One problem: Walpole didn't write this. Author Carolly Erickson did.
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'Life and Death' by an unidentified artist, 18th century. Wellcome Collection, London.
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During Versailles time as a residence, toilet facilities ranged from various types of toilet chairs and commodes to chamber pots as well as public lavatories and, by 1789, 9 flushing toilets in private apartments. Some apartments had "toilet rooms" (marked "chaise").
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Related: The idea that these were her last words stems from a revolutionary report of questionable veracity which claims she did it on purpose out of vanity, to make herself remembered. More info:
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The Cabinet de la Méridienne, boudoir of Marie Antoinette, before and after a years-long restoration which desired to bring the room closest to its last appearance in the late 1780s.
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Here is a notice to add more ventilation to the public toilet of the Swiss Guards due to the smell that permeated nearby apartments. Voltaire had an apartment right near these latrines and complained that it was the "smelliest shit-hole in Versailles."
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I am currently enamored with this pink confection of a costume designed by Louis-René Boquet for an unknown performance.
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Would people in the 18th century have smelled as fresh as someone in 2023 taking hot showers every day with antibacterial body wash? Nope, but hardly reeking--and apparently this particular series has the family "forbidding" the main character to bathe, which is nonsense.
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And no, this isn't some massive upheaval in historiography. It's one sentence about Napoleon wanting Josephine to have some body odor or whatnot. But it makes me wonder--Can I trust what is written in this book? How much should I trust it?
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Empty fountain screams are a mood.
Image: Fountain sculpture from the Latona Basin at Versailles, credit: EPV/Thomas Garnier
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Arthur & Guinevere were also recreated as an early Barbie fashion set. These fashion sets were part of the "Little Theatre" series.
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In January of 1791, robbers broke into the home of Madame du Barry and stole caskets containing jewelry and other treasures. A list of stolen goods--taking up an 8 page pamphlet--was circulated by her personal jeweler in the hopes of regaining the lost items.
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Marie Thérèse de France, the only child of Marie Antoinette to survive childhood, died on October 19th, 1851, age 72. She had been ill for several days, and unable to go to the chapel for services on the anniversary of her mother's death. Her last words were: "I am annihilated."
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Up for sale (again) at Bonhams: A nightgown said to be worn by Titanic survivor Charlotte Cardeza during the Titanic disaster. The gown was gifted by Cardeza to her maid (also a Titanic survivor) Annie Ward. It was passed on in 2022, now back with half the estimate.
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The Coppola film had such an impact on the shift from "Marie Antoinette wasn't a nasty bitch who hated the poor" to "Marie Antoinette was a teen queen her whole life and had no political sway you guys are just mean :3" During the revolution? She was the political center!
I can't believe how many times I've had to address this but I keep getting tagged in nonsense so here is a hopefully definitive video on why I don't care for the misleading rehabilitation of Marie Antoinette:
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Something I'm working on for my book about Marie Antoinette & adjacent myths is why people really, really want to believe that Versailles had no toilets and people were just urinating and defecating in corridors and corners as any sort of norm.
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In 1828, we wear pink. Image: A miniature of an unidentified woman by Rosalie Renaudin, 1828.
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A comparison of three fashion plates from 1778, 1788, and 1798.
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