Luke Gowdy
@gowdy_luke
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@TulsiGabbard
Another power is needed in the region. China is a giant, and they will never be an ally of Japan.
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@Soteriology101
@DrOakley1689
It’s the height of absurdity that Flowers has invited White to discuss this issue for years and then James White finally offers to debate the topic under only narrow restrictions and his fans act as though the gauntlet has been thrown down for the first time. It’s time, James.
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Arminians are in a sweet spot right now.
We are getting along with Calvinists better because Provisionists exist. We are getting along with Provisionists better because Calvinists exist.
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Do Provisionists ever stop before they post about a belief they are going to blame Augustine for creating and think, “Hmm. Maybe I should research that before posting.”🤔????
Even better, do they ever look for that information outside their echo chamber?
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Leighton Fowers: “Augustine left free-will theism because he was a determinist before he was a free-will theist.”
Calvinists: “Leighton Flowers left determinism because he was a free-will theist before he was a determinist.”
Leighton Flowers: “That’s illogical.”
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@JordanMHatfield
@The_Idol_Killer
@Soteriology101
Child sacrifice would involve killing one’s own child to get the blessing of a deity. That’s not possible in Calvinism.
I’m a known free-will theist. But I think Provisionists too often like simplistic, childish arguments. Sometimes the dumbness gets so distilled that over
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The Quote of the Week is from this video, in which Kenneth M. Wilson berates LutheranTiger for being uneducated. 🙄 Wilson explains that John Calvin believed John 3:5 refers to the “brith water of the mother.”
The Reality Check the Week comes from John Calvin, who did not
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Why was Cyprian baptizing infants?
Cyprian:”The Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them, as far as we Can, We must strive that, if possible, no soul be lost.”
Wilson: “No one prior to 412 knew why they were baptizing infants.” 🙄
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Sorry Leighton Flowers, the Anabaptists were writing about prevenient grace long before Jacobus Arminius was born.
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“Mistakes were made…”
Seriously? No one knew why infants were being baptized until 412? And Tertullian said he didn’t know why infants were being baptized? Cyprian didn’t know why? Why was Augustine saying why infants were being baptized before 412 if he didn’t know why
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Another question for Provisionists: Since it is obvious what Leighton Flowers will not stop saying false things about the history of the church (pic1), what will you do when you have knowledge to the contrary, like we see in the quotes of Chrysostom(pic2)?
Why not be honest?
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@amalaekpunobi
And they all walk to work, because they did not have cars when they were slaves.
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Tip of the Day:
If you are going to wave your credentials around and then punch down, it would be wise to make sure than what comes out of your mouth on a regular basis can’t be disproved with a 60-second search on the internet.
Just sayin’…
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@__TEAM_USA
He’s just drawing attention to himself in a dysfunctional way. Ben Shapiro explained that today on his podcast.
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Ken Wilson wrote an entire book claiming Augustine introduced a novel reading of John 3:5 being about water baptism for salvation without once mentioning that all the Early Fathers that referenced the verse—and Augustine himself—used it that way before 412.
None of the
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John 1:4:
“In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.”
Arminians believe that (1) God provided the light for all mankind, since the beginning. (2)Man separated himself from the light by rebelling. And (3) man can return by walking in the light.
Leighton
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@wil_da_beast630
The people making that argument weren’t the victims of Hamas, so they don’t care. They have no skin in the game if Hamas returned and did it all over again in perpetuity.
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If you want to sit at the adult table, you’ve got to act like an adult.
I’ve discussed this before, but I want to revisit it.
According to Wikipedia:
“Poisoning the well (or attempting to poison the well) is a type of informal fallacy where adverse information about a target
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@GermanPolyglot
No, international law does not apply to that situation. You don’t get to make up laws.
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The Quote of the Week comes from Kenneth M. Wilson, who tells us (pic1) that Augustine didn’t quote Zosimus saying anything about infant baptism in Letter 190.
The Reality Check of the Week comes from Letter 190. With basic reading skills you can see(pic2) Augustine literally
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Leighton likes anyone who says what he wants to hear. Accuracy be damned.
Something is seriously wrong with Wilson.
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Kurt Jaros giving the correct answer to a question about Kenneth M. Wilson…
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@The_Idol_Killer
@JordanMHatfield
@Soteriology101
<<<In Calvinism EVERY CHILD sacrificed to Molech was eternally ordained by God in eternity past. Your objection is not based on Calvinism's claims & entailments.>>>
That’s an entirely different point from what you said in the video. Now you are trying to make the discussion
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@Soteriology101
I can’t wait to not listen to James White talk about it for the rest of his life.
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Here’s Leighton Flowers reading Augustine saying that the gift of perseverance is a new idea that he now supports. Augustine is not speaking of the rest of theology, per se. I’ve already established that Marius Victorinus was the first to teach what Leighton attributes to
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A question for Provisionists. Do you really believe what Leighton Flowers says when he says theses types of things about history? If you’ve read the many Early Chuch Fathers discussing the need for God’s assistance to believe the Gospel, why do you remain silent?
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Just finished a discussion with Lucas
@MethodMinistry
and Derrik
@DPGBehler
at Method Ministries HQ.
Apparently the recording won’t be beamed down for a few days.
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Somehow Augustine tricked Irenaeus into saying these things before Augustine was even born. That just goes to show you how sneaky Augustine was.
Thanks a lot, Augustine! 😡
#BaalGate
#BlameAugustine
#ProofOfTimeTravel
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Has anyone located a Provisionist Patrology scholar yet?
Just one?
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Guess who is selling T-shirts with the image of someone who believed man is so depraved that prevenient grace is needed to partially regenerate people so that they can believe.
Click on the picture and look at the top.
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Prevenient grace, according to the Eastern Orthodox Synod of Jerusalem (1672).
Note, the necessity of such grace is a feature—not a bug—of mankind, even before the fall. (Kinda sounds familiar.🤔)
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I get a lot of DMs about church history because people are confused about what I am doing here. People see me discussing history and think I’m promoting whatever I’m discussing.
Most people discuss church history in a way that promotes aspects of their own theology. They
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I want to remind everyone that I am a Baptist (credobaptist) Arminian (free-will theist). However, I am interested in accurate Church history. That means that I am not inclined to make history fit my preferences.
If my ox gets gored, so be it.
If that makes me unpopular, so
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As promised, I will be discussing what Leighton Flowers and Ken Wilson have said about Tertullian’s view of infant baptism being unnecessary.
Due to the fact that I’m not a messenger some people will trust because of tribalism, I now present Philip Schaff’s comments on the
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Hereditary sin, taint of sin and sin contagion are issues the ECFs were dealing with before Augustine. But Augustine still influenced them somehow. Thanks Augustine. 😡
On top of that, before Augustine there was the sticky problem for the ECFs of figuring out how to get
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To be clear, Flowers is arguing that prior to Augustine, no one said man needed God’s assistance to believe the Gospel. Chrysostom argued that everyone can believe the Gospel ONLY BECAUSE God assists them.
What will you do with this knowledge of church history?
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A few days ago I posed the question to Provisionists whether they could/would be honest about church history. I asked the question because so many repeat the false claims like the one in pic1 below. Leighton likes to make claims that prior to the 5th century no one believed man
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@VMikicIndy
@TulsiGabbard
Yeah, but allies are made in the present.
If future possibilities were an argument against something, then they would be an argument against absolutely everything.
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@ReinceNiebuhr
@Historycourses
They used time machines and went back in history to teach it to the Native Americans.
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As promised, the end of the month will mark the end of my attention regularly being directed at Kenneth M. Wilson and Leighton Flowers. But I must say that what I’ve covered is just the tip of the iceberg.
I will continue to post about Wilson and Flowers from time to time,
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The Quote of the Week is found in pic1, where Ken Wilson says Cassian thought salvation was the result of “non-gifted” faith.
The Reality Check of the Week is found in pic2, where Cassian explains that salvation is the result of gifted faith.
For the Fathers, free will is
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Here we see Leighton Flowers and Ken Wilson mockingly laughing at Thuyen Dinh Tran regarding a dispute about the history of Christianity.
Let's see how good two grown men with PhDs actually understand the history of the early church.
Stay tuned…
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@AbidingInLove_
@ProvisionistP
No. He’s arguing that the Gospel is super powerful words composed by the Spirit that are spoken by people to make you think about God. Your brain receives these words and is sufficiently stimulated to make you eternally responsible for whatever decisions you make concerning what
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@1984_nate
@Soteriology101
@The_Idol_Killer
@ProvisionistP
Exactly. I was screaming at my phone after he said that.
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Balthasar Hubmaier on prevenient grace:
“As the eye of the human being has the ability to see the light and yet cannot see unless the light enters beforehand into the eye, so does the human being have the ability to see the light of faith through the Word of God, which he cannot
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I will pay $1,000 to anyone who will host a conversation with me and either of these two educated people, and can get them to complete a discussion of the topic of Kenneth M. Wilson’s book. I will double the amount if both of these scholars appear and complete the discussion. A
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The Quote of the Week comes from Ken Wilson, who tells us Augustine never said Manichaeans weren’t Christians, in pic1
The Reality Check of the Week comes from “Of the Morals of the Catholic Church,” where we read one of the many times Augustine said Manichaeans weren’t
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Here’s a comment recently left on one of Leighton’s YouTube videos. It displays what is inevitably going to happen as people learn about Christian history. The Provisionists have doubled down on an absurd set of claims about history, simply because Leighton Flowers has done so.
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A young buck Lutheran and and old goat Baptist discussing the misconceptions of Leighton Flowers and Ken Wilson regarding Tertullian:
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@The_MR_Chis
Yup. And “comes” is present tense.
“ρχεται προς με” literally means “comes towards me.”
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Information about history should not be threatening to people who prefer the truth over fiction.
I’ll just leave this here.
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@DPGBehler
All such Calvinist claims are based on ambiguous proof texts. And the clear proof texts to the contrary abound.
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@silvertastebud
@MayoMonkeyredux
@ClownWorld_
“This year” refers to the entire country in a year.
26 total in a year
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The Quote of the Week is from Ken Wilson, who tells us that Ambrosiaster said that Phil. 1:7 is about financial participation, not salvation (see pic1).
The Reality Check of the Week is from Ambrosiaster’s actual comments on the verse (pic2), where people with basic reading
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@alexandrosM
@DrJBhattacharya
A good scientist will constantly be considering ways his/her explanation might be wrong. It has served me well in my career.
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Uh oh….
The very people Leighton Flowers attributes his theology to were teaching about the necessity of prevenient grace before Arminius was even born.
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@Soteriology101
@StevenUllmer
Leighton, I’m offering to debate Wilson on your show. You set up the time and place. I’ll be there.
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The Quote of the Week comes from Kenneth M. Wilson, who in pic1 says Augustine falsely claimed that Ambrose said the initial “good will” to follow God was inspired by God. Wilson claims that is a 👻“pagan concept”👻 foreign to Ambrose.
The Reality Check of the Week comes from
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@jonathanramont
So he continually makes the mistake of saying that Arminians think God took away something that Arminians generally don’t think we ever had without God’s enabling.
The fall separated us from God, not some natural ability we were born with. And without God, we are flesh.
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The Quote of the Week (pic1) is Kenneth M. Wilson’s comment about the 419 CE council, Canon 110.
The Reality Check of the Week (pic2) comes from the 419 CE council, Canon 110, which says exactly the opposite of what Wilson claims.
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@ProvisionistP
Calvinism is wrong.
But tribalism is also wrong. So if you think you are in my tribe and you are saying something wrong, you are still wrong. And since my loyalty is to the truth, my words will either make you stronger or will annoy you if you dislike the truth.
The “enemy” of
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@ProvisionistP
It depends upon the context.
The Gospel from the beginning of time until now has been that all who call upon the name of the Lord will be saved. Jesus has always been the light of mankind (John 1:4), enlightening people to know the Gospel when they hear it.
What was the Gospel
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@jonathanramont
His position is that God has given us sufficiently powerful brains, so we are enabled from/by birth. My position is that all who have flesh/brains —starting with sinless Adam until today—require enlightenment by Christ to believe. Transcendent Christ from Day One.
John Wesley:
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I’ve given up looking for a Provisionist Patrology scholar. If you are a Provisionist, I encourage your participation here. I just ask that you spend 15 minutes researching the any specific topic I mention here before you tell me I am wrong.
15 minutes
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@JNelsonLDF
So a white male could have published only 11 times and become president of Harvard? And he would have been defended if he plagiarized?
Nah.
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It seems not to occur to Provisionists that they are arguing against both synergism and monergism. They often quote with glee church historians saying the ECFs were synergists.
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The Quote of the Week (pic1) comes from Ken Wilson, who tells us in his Kindle edition that in 412 Augustine “now teaches” a “novel theology” of proxy salvation for infants.
The Reality Check of the Week comes from Augustine’s writing in 395 AD in “On Free Choice of the Will”
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Uh oh….
If you listen to Leighton Flowers, you may have been misled to believe that Augustine and Arminians are the source of the belief in the necessity of divine enablement to believe the Gospel, otherwise known as prevenient grace.
As I’ve been demonstrating, the belief in
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Let me know if anything I said was untrue. If what I said is accurate, I should not be dismissed or ridiculed for telling the truth.
@LutheranTiger
@PrinceAsbel
@HwsEleutheroi
@CherylSchatz
Over White’s inconsistencies? I’m no Wilson apologist and not an expert on Augustine but it seems like I found the Ken Wilson Haters Club with
@gowdy_luke
and
@LutheranTiger
.
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@rightresponsem
You need to keep reforming and ditch the Neo-Platonic influences.
But be prepared to sound more like the Early Chruch Fathers than you ever have if you do. Maybe you’ll merge with the Arminians. Chrysostom is waiting for you.
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