Ottokar Hochman
@OttokarHochman
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Heaven and earth are not humane | nozickian marxist | democratic hobbesian | calvinistic atheist | effective egoist | dissident woke progressive
Joined August 2022
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The Three Traditions are One but for Calvin, Marx, and Nozick
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@yhdistyminen
@SwannMarcus89
All of these guys are real!
Authright: Alessandra Mussolini
Libright: Jesse Ventura
Libleft: Like half of wonk-left twitter
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@matress_island
@revhowardarson
A funny thing is that this is actually even more true than you probably think it is because almost EVERY sect that hyperconservative puritan chauvinists thought were dangerous have contributed to this moment—not just Catholicism but also Baptism and Pentacostalism
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@maiamindel
Aga Khan is a direct descendant of Ali and he studied Islamic History at Harvard while he was literally the Nizari Imam. That’s got to have been an interesting class atmosphere lol
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@revhowardarson
Oppenheimer is not sufficiently leftist (resolutely committed to the righteous pan-Asian goal of the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere)
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Ok I definitely worded this badly: I’m agreeing with Will here! Traffic light cameras *are* a structure that requires future enforcers! The people whining about how automated systems lack discretion are the ones I’m complaining about!
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@antonhowes
As for something more unambiguously exogenous, I think the carruca spreading to Europe during the early middle ages is up there imo—intensively agricultural society wasn’t really possible north of the Alps until that point
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There’s a specific type of person for whom “police abolition” doesn’t so much mean “I want a system that structurally requires fewer people charged with enforcement duties” as “I want people like ME doing the enforcing, and I don’t consider that being a ‘cop’”
guys, one specific advantage of red light cameras is that they remove the police from the equation, meaning fewer potential conflicts. the problem with policing is the risk of conflicts with police, not the concept of basic safety rules being enforced
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Hottake: US 3rd Party System = Reform-Era China
GOP = Dengists/CPC Right, Guangdong Model
Dems = CPC Left, Chongqing model
Deng = Lincoln
Jiang = Grant/Stalwarts
Hu = Halfbreed reformers (Garfield, Arthur, McKinley)
Xi = TR
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@SwannMarcus89
One of these days I want to produce one of these maps but for Europe, where every single Italian dialect spoken by like 1000 people in a mountain village or random German tribe mentioned once by Tacitus and never heard of again gets its own country
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@PopulismUpdates
“Antisemite-like conspiracists but for French huguenot refugees” is a kind of guy that I feel like should be more common than it actually is, they show up *everywhere*—I know Maurras believed this but I don’t think it’s survived into modern politics
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@souljagoytellem
@nikicaga
literally everyone in this picture would have been on the same side against the op lol
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@antonhowes
This probably don’t count as “exogenous” but a wild one here is that the Mexican War of Independence caused the decline of the Qing Dynasty
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@perdricof
IMO the most useful way to think about this is that the people who believe it haven’t internalized the fact that climate change is about *carbon emissions*, and implicitly think that the “climate” problem is really one of disconnection from nature, mankind’s hubris, etc.
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@lxeagle17
I always wonder about who votes for the opposition in these elections, and what happens to them.
Like is there a group of people that the govt gives the privilege of voting for the opposition to? Is the number just totally made up?
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@GoldwagNathan
@bhangbhangducx
There is! Romantic anticapitalism, folk politics, tory socialism, left humanism—take your pick
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@WealthyAutocrat
The possum really gets me because it’s blatantly an appalachian touchstone which this image is appropriating to equate the (white) south with a cultural tradition that has more left-wing history than they do
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@SwannMarcus89
A considerable portion of dirtbag populists basically believe in postonian antisemitism but directed primarily at PMC nerds exhibit 48394
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@LittleMammith
@SwannMarcus89
I’ve never got the “longhouse” phrase among the neonazis because, like, weren’t longhouses the characteristic, defining features of ancient germanic society as well?
My dudes you are insulting *your own race and heroes* lmao. Arminius exemplified the longhouse!
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@souljagoytellem
The Pelosi trading discourse drives me insane bc, like, 95% of her trades and as far as I can tell all the successful ones were just, like, “buy apple”
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Let’s be real here, nuclear power is basically a sorelian myth for ecomodernism lol
This is kinda what I mean when I say nuclear power gets a lot of boosters purely by being cool even when that coolness isn't particularly useful
Like,,, who cares about energy density for grid scale power generation? Energy density matters for portable power sources
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@opinonhaver
I have deep contempt for anyone who makes these complaints without even having a 4.0 or a 1600 lmao
like bruh I’m resentful too but at least I actually had the stats for it
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I’m increasingly convinced that the line between actual socialists and these sorts of subcultural “socialists” is basically just Postonian antisemitism directed at the prof-managerial class rather than Jews
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@SwannMarcus89
The thing that this is missing is that there’s two types of “progressive teenagers”, basically unrelated to how radical they are—the nerd type and the artist/activist type. The first is fine, the second is overwhelmingly the one that produces people like this
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@ABeardedPanda
What’s interesting to me is that this kind of behavior clearly descends from a particular tumblr subculture but it’s almost completely separated from the extremely fringe and overtly ideological context of that subculture, which you’d *think* would be the cause of this insanity
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@JohnBar35687700
@PopulismUpdates
I.e. I remember reading this one anecdote about Hitler trying to butter up this old conservative German industrialist, who responded by saying that he liked him but that he needed to stop being distracted by Jews to focus on the REAL conspiracy, the Catholics
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@ettingermentum
South Carolinians legit have anti-migrant hostility directed at Ohioans specifically lmao.
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few are aware of this but in the 1850s there was an abolitionist splinter of the know-nothings that delightfully named themselves the “know-somethings” and I think that’s pretty charming tbh
the most annoying thing about a group of unelected Catholics, put in place by a decades long antidemocratic conspiracy, declaring that the president is effectively a king is that it means the Know Nothings ended up being right
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@nick_kapur
@lastpositivist
like if you asked me to name “powerful centralized capital cities that contrast dramatically with a sparse and unremarkable countryside” it’d be second on my list after Paris
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@eshear
So fun fact: did you know that in CP Snow’s Two Cultures one of the thing he remarks on is that humanists are conservative by nature, unlike scientists who take naturally to progressive causes like planned economy?
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Dems:
-Associated w/“recent unpleasantness” (ACW/Cultural Rev)
-Poor/rural populists largely coopted by older elite who lost said prev struggle
-Provincial, support from left-behind regions
-Anti-market ideology, but not practice
-Claims anti-corruption, is even more corrupt
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@butleriano
Don’t forget Indian-American Sinoamerophobia (our model minority better than their model minority)!
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@JohnWakefieId
I think Pence counts as a demographic-based pick tbh, it’s weird to think about now but Trump was legit pretty weak with evangelicals at the time
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@bad_histories
The original dude is actually even worse here, the “philosophy = pastoral aristocrats subjugating farmers” thing is directly from BAP’s new book
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@rieszscoffee
@yhdistyminen
@nikicaga
This is part of the reason why the USSR produced so many of the greatest geniuses in theoretical statistics/infoscience/etc. but never got anywhere in the actual information economy
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@rieszscoffee
@yhdistyminen
@nikicaga
On no they did—the issue iirc was that the USSR as a matter of ideology rejected the law of large numbers, which led to their data-gathering apparatus being ridiculously overgrown and ineffective
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@DanielleFong
The whole panic around “transgenderism” is really a massive tell for the ostensibly techno-optimist alt-center-right, honestly. Their transphobia contradicts almost all of their stated core beliefs
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@worsematt
They’ve literally just redefined imperialism as unipolarity rather than actual, physical imperializing of other countries
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TR/Xi:
-Chestbusters out of said reformers
-Began as safe alternative to a dangerous radical (Bryan/Bo)
-Elite scion, but considered “left”
-Really just asserting political power over business
-Assertive new foreign policy
-Creates new institutions
-Realigns politics around him
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@antonhowes
Basically: Qing China did not mint standardized coins, so merchants in China took to using Spanish pieces of 8 bc of their consistent quality, and these came to be worth significantly more than their weight in silver
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@JohnWakefieId
@Athenion3
tfw you will never live in a world where the southern song weren’t destroyed and China was able to evolve into a capitalist oceanic civilization as heaven intended
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@antonhowes
During the Latin American Wars of Independence Spain lost control of its silver mines and the newly independent American states started minting their own Spanish coins of much lower quality, causing a huge currency shortage in China
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GOP/Dengists:
-Winner of the last realigning conflict (Civil War/Cultural Rev)
-State/big business cooperation, industrial policy
-Engagement w/world markets, but developmentalist
-Middle Class/Boug support
-Hella infrastructure
-Assoc. w/dominant political machine & corruption
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@rev_avocado
To be clear here I’m agreeing with Will! “Structurally wanting less enforcement” is having more red-light cameras instead of cops, I’m complaining about self-proclaimed “abolitionists” in the comments whining about how cameras would be bad because they lack discretion or so on
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@antonhowes
Traders began using opium as a quasi-currency—it was this, not actual drug use, that drove the huge demand for opium in China.
From there on out you get the Opium War and the cascading effects of it, leading to the Qing collapse
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@eshear
It’s romantic anti-capitalism! The reason why you’re seeing convergent evolution w/conservatism is bc a lot of “leftists” today are actually dispositional conservatives acculturated into “socially progressive” values bc of their upbringing
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@djw172
@ArmandDoma
There’s a certain type of tankie that is authoritarian to a level that’s almost hard to imagine. Their deepest belief is that WIERD, liberal types should not be able to challenge state and paternal authority—capitalism only matters insofar as it’s something the libs do
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-Split between successors of old party elites and middle class reformers
-Obvious dissonance btw stated ideals and actual politics
-Kind of a spiritual successor of old losing party (Federalists/KMT)
-Complex relationship w/hegemon (Britain/USA)
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It’s weird how, in retrospect, the “sunlight is the best disinfectant” free speech absolutism stuff was basically totally vindicated bc letting all the dumb RWers run wild on this site really did mostly just turn everyone not on their side against them, but (1/2)
'free speech' is somewhat better in theory. community notes are a good innovation. in practice intelligent right wingers got away with anything they wanted even in 2020 twitter and now the middest idiots have been promoted to have a voice
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Half-Breeds (Arthur & McKinley)/Hu:
-Technocratic reformers
-Come from less party elite backgrounds than predecessors, want to make party and country less nepo
-Dealt major blow by prolonged global financial crisis
-Kind of ineffectual
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Lincoln/Deng:
-Big guy
-Political realignment around his actions
-First generation of Dems/CPC left hate him, later gens partially reconciled to legacy
-Probably actually more moderate than successors to his legacy
-Funny hat
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-“Against” encroachment of global markets on society, actually support policies which keep country subordinate in said markets
-Skeptical of legalism (mob justice and lynching/Maoist mobilization)
-Against centralized corporatism, but (theoretically) for state-driven leveling
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Stalwarts/Jiang:
-Expand on big guy’s reforms
-Pro-market
-Enthusiastic collaboration w/Big Business
-Hella corrupt
-Struggle to assert central power over provinces
-Both confrontation and deepening engagement w/hegemon
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An underrated part of why the whole patsoc proletarian industrial purism thing is stupid is because they justify it by saying that Marxism isn’t a moral doctrine, only a scientific understanding of power dynamics, but their actual analysis of power is insane
The origins of "identity politics" is actually in the western left's inability to identify what the proletariat is in a materialist fashion, but rather present the proletariat as an "identity" that one takes up upon reaching "revolutionary consciousness"-- the rest flows from
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@JohnBar35687700
@PopulismUpdates
The whole subject of 19th century anticatholicism is kind of done dirty by its association with the US (where it was more or less straightforwardly an ethnic anti-immigrant thing) tbh—what went in in Europe was so much weirder and more interesting.
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@antonhowes
Notably: the European village as we would think of it today did not exist until the spread of the plow, before that point people mostly lived in dispersed old germanic longhouses and/or plantation-style villas
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@JohnWakefieId
@Athenion3
(somewhat more seriously iirc the song never really had an independent bourgeoisie competing w/existing authority—its market was driven by officials and scholar-gentry doing commerce on the side—although how nec. this is to capitalism or how diff it is from Europe is debatable)
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@AnonymousLeftie
It’s always so weird to remember that Martin Van Buren basically invented democracy as we know it
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@rebeccaga11oway
@WealthyAutocrat
They’re found in like most of America, but they’ve been a symbol that online Appalachian leftists have used to push back against prejudice towards their community in leftist circles for years now, which is obviously what the image is invoking—even though it’s not abt Appalachia
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@SwannMarcus89
if you want to know why capitalism sucks think about all the people who want to be petty boug but can’t be
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@DanielleFong
Individualism… but not individuals choosing their gender identity… and ALSO not individuals choosing not to have a set gender identity
Techno-optimism and transhumanism… but not in using technology to control your body’s gender expression
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@perdricof
Ong’s Orality and Literacy is a useful resource for understanding this kind of thinking—this sort of boomer environmentalism is (and idolizes) a certain style of “holistic”, pre-literate thinking where the inseparability of the aesthetic and the real is straight-up the point
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@souljagoytellem
minor quibble here but zentrum’s identity was a lot more complicated than being right-wing catholics (though some members of zentrum were)
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@DanielleFong
Free speech except for the word “cis”, western culture except for like three millennia of historical crossdressing culture, science and rationalism and dissent but not any questioning of the coherence of the gender binary, etc.
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@eshear
Basically, a lot of the critique became less “capitalism empowers the owning class to exploit labor” and more “capitalism empowers weirdo soulless math nerds obsessed with line go up to ruin all the things that we value and hold dear”—romantic anti-capitalism!
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@GoldwagNathan
@bhangbhangducx
That being said I do wish there was one agreed-upon word to describe not just the vague affect but the underlying, partially implicit ideology, kind of like “souvereignism” for the third worldist authoritarian red-brown stuff
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@eshear
Up until ~the 70s, people generally thought that the sciences coded left/socialist/progressive/etc.
, and the humanities coded right/conservative (not super surprising when you remember the intense sciencism of classical Marxism)
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@DanielleFong
HBD and idolization of high IQ, low time preference, etc. populations… except trans people, they don’t count
Antifeminism… except we’re also going to buy into all this TERF radfem shit about the sacred irrational feminine essence that needs protecting from the transes
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Like you guys realize there will still be email jobs under socialism, and the people who hold them will be even more powerful, right? Because that work is needed to run large organizations, and part of “socialism” means them continuing that work without being beholden to a boss?
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hindutva nationalists adopting antisemitism to ape Euro nationalists, even as they proclaim superiority over them, when there is literally no history of jews in India to be angry at in the first place is a special level of pathetic lol
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@GrahamGallaghe9
He picked the sect with maybe the least elite appeal in the world outside of Pentecostalism too lmao
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@souljagoytellem
I feel like if you had to choose 6 generals with distinct personalities/ideentities for this the choices here make no sense right?
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@eshear
Other people have already talked about the immediate cause (SomethingAwful) but I want to take a stab at the deeper dynamic here: the 2010s saw an important phase change what sort of supporter base the “left” draws on, and imho it was an extremely negative one
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Like what kind of job do you think a party apparatchik does?
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@SwannMarcus89
Like this one is even splitting up people who *expressly, in real life, do not consider themselves separate nations*. My dudes Tuareg nationalist separatism literally exists right now, and they don't want to divide themselves into a dozen little statelets lmao.
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Tbh this is kind of a category error: the Republican Party has *always* been the party in favor of stronger executive power, this is actually one of relatively few features of the party that has stayed consistent throughout its entire history
Ok, seriously, where did the GOP turn into the party that wants the president to be a king? Today's ruling, unitary executive theory, this predates Trump.
How did an ostensibly small gov party who founded a lot of their identity on opposing FDR turn Jacksonian on the executive?
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@notkavi
This person is sort of giving up the game in the last tweet when they complain about industrial cropping: their argument only makes sense if you assume *pre-industrial* agriculture, which they do because that's also what they demand in general, independent of the meat discourse.
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@LiuBeised
@Absurd_Ruka
and… you think… that the distinction here… is that iran is shia?
my dude hamas is sunni lmao
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What we desperately need isn’t a “tech right” but a “tech *left*”, that can save us from both idiot conservatives and enshittification slop as well as from an anti-progress rich kid cultural gentry that pretends at being “left-wing”
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@revhowardarson
So much of the anti-AI discourse is just blatant left-nietzschean anti-egalitarianism once you know how to spot it
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@opinonhaver
@Sharon_Kuruvila
@JoePostingg
Don’t really think this works bc the PRI was supported by the PMC whereas the Republican regime by and large will not be—authoritarian right-populists like Orban/Modi/Bibi seem like much better comparisons
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@3mericanj0hnson
Excited to see the upcoming MAGACommunist embrace of Trotsky, Makhno, Marcuse, and Walter Benjamin
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@lastpositivist
@christapeterso
this feels like it’s something that exists somewhere in the Dune series
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@Absurd_Ruka
@souljagoytellem
I mean I’m not even arguing that they should, but regardless of what you think ought to be the rule here it should be obvious that, descriptively, Pelosi wasn’t insider trading using secret congressional information
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You know this is actually a good opportunity to dispel a common misconception about the “Yellow Peril” myth in 20th century Europe: German yellow peril panic and German slavophobia were essentially unrelated to each other, and do not reflect a generalized fear of “Asia”
The Nazis were anti Russia and anti China more than anything else.
The entire point of Nazism was to unite Europe to conquer Asia and destroy COMMUNISM.
Hitler said so himself, in his last radio address:
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@osamabishounen
@ettingermentum
joke’s on you, I knew about the China stuff first and worked it backwards on to the US
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@LiuBeised
@Absurd_Ruka
like my dude I know what Khomeini believed and I know what the modern Iranian state ideology is (which is also not the same thing as “Khomeinism” in the same sense that the PRC is not Maoist). You’re right that it’s not what Western cliches portray it as… because it’s worse lmao
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@worsematt
romantic anticapitalism continues to be the most useful concept by which to understand the modern left, chapter 3 of the communist manifesto stay winning
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