Doug Thonus
@Doug_Thonus
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I tweet / blog / podcast about the Bulls / NBA I particularly love the economics side of basketball and advanced analytics.
Joined June 2015
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@StephNoh
That choke slam Reese received was fricken brutal. About 10x as dangerous as what happened to Clark.
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That DeRozan guy sure is overpaid and the Bulls defense will be awful
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The
@chicagobulls
apparently are kicking anyone out of the united center that has a fire GarPax shirt or jersey on. Absolutely unbelievable that the FO is that authoritarian.
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Matas is exactly who Pat Williams has needed to push him. I'd run these two up against each other every day in practice. Stand-Still P-Will is either getting his shit together or will be totally broken by the end of training camp.
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AKME did a great job rebuilding the orlando magic, maybe they can focus on the Bulls next.
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How many big 4s in the NBA are better than DeMar, Zach, Vuc, and Lonzo?
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DeMar DeRozan has been the 1A option for Chicago, Zach has become the 1B option and embraced the role entirely. Can't say enough for how unselfish that is in a contract year. Everyone on this team just wants to win.
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Bill Simmons on trade value pod, "the bulls not putting everyone but Coby white on the trade market is the dumbest thing in the NBA this year"
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The Bulls are now 24-18 over the last 42 games. That's over half a season and would be a 46-36 type pace. With Ayo/Coby really both stepping up, they have wiggle room to transform this team with the right moves.
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First thought is I like the move for Chicago. Giddey's probably about the best prospect I can imagine that is available for Chicago for Caruso, but you can't roll with DeRozan and Vuc and Giddey. you can't have a 3rd non shooter out there. You have to blow up everything now.
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I don't know that I have much energy for Bulls takes, but here is one:
Most commentary about the Bulls is behind the curve. You had a hot second to rebuild around Coby and Ayo by moving your vets a year and a half ago, a move I advocated for strongly at the time, because it
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Just got done with a long day of work. I think people are vastly overrating Caruso's trade value and vastly underrating Giddey's potential.
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Smith was my favorite target this off-season. Love this move for the Bulls.
Free agent center Jalen Smith has agreed on a three-year, $27 million contract with the Chicago Bulls, sources tell ESPN. Smith’s agents at
@KlutchSports
reached deal with Bulls front office overnight.
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For
@Stacey21King
on Vuc in the post:
1: Over three years, he's 7th in the league in post up attempts. We do go to him a lot in the post.
2: He's the least effective of anyone in the league getting his number of attempts by a good margin.
3: His overall efficiency in the post
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Zach trying to hit his first 4 game win streak in the NBA tonight. DeRozan with the revenge game, I think the bulls take it.
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Just listened to the Bill Simmons podcast on the Caruso trade, and they talked about what would you do as the Bulls generally, and Simmons just outlined my exact plan: Let Zach rehab his value, move Vuc, S&T DeMar.
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@Drewbird47
@StephNoh
The hip check was also about the force of a typical hard screen that could happen legally. Because it was a dead ball, it deserved to be a flagrant 1. It was later upgraded. No flagrant 1 level foul in the history of basketball has previously gotten this level of discussion.
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That's 3 games in a row that the Bulls lose if not for Coby Whites good play.
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So this is a game the Bulls need Vuc to dominate and should go heavily to him in the post. The Nets should have absolutely no answer for him there. I understand why he struggles against Embiid, he should have a decisive advantage tonight.
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@authAlanaMurphy
@StephNoh
If I'm playing pick up at the gym, and I have a choice of being grabbed out of the air by the neck and slammed on my back, but the guy doing it is banned for life, or receiving a hip check and the other person gets to keep playing, I'm going to go with the hip check.
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Hot take, the Bulls don't need to replace Pat Williams because Pat Williams isn't notably better at the present moment than the guys playing behind him.
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The Zach LaVine news is a outrage. He last played 24 minutes in a game 10 days ago. This isn't load management and it's a fucking lie. So be honest and say he tweaked his knee if that's what happened. If he's hurt, he's hurt, but don't spoon feed fans bullshit.
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Oh my god did this turn out awesome. My daughter
@chlonus_thonus
is a bad ass. Love the attention to detail, even put me in a bulls beat shirt. What say you
@cbefred
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I think most of the Giddey discourse and anger around it is based less on Giddey and more on the fact that AK waited so long to make a retool move, that the total value left he could get was so small.
The larger issue is the not moving DeMar last deadline (or earlier), not
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Let me rephrase that:
Last year, the Bulls didn't trade Nicola Vucevic, then paid him at least 2x his market value and 3x his on-court value.
DeMar DeRozan very much would like the same outcome.
Last season, the Bulls didn't trade Nikola Vučević at the deadline and then re-signed him before he hit unrestricted free agency.
DeMar DeRozan sounded very much like someone desiring to do the same.
"The love is there."
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@NBCSChicago
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@ChiSportUpdates
Man that's a hell of a house for 950k to be honest. To the extent any million dollar house is a bargain, that looks like a good deal.
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@Will_Gottlieb
@KCJHoop
The worst thing you can do in management is pay guys because they earned it in the past rather than because they will earn it in the future.
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1: The return for DeMar DeRozan was about what you would expect.
2: We got cash to pay most of Duarte's salary. It will be a joke, but it was just a straight financial arbitrage between the two teams. Kings would have been in the tax and paid double his salary, they paid us
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What you are seeing right now, is a guy GarPax brought in, play like a superstar and carry this team.
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I was thinking about it and maybe I'm just biased, but I feel like Joakim Noah might be one of the most beloved Bulls of all time.
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@johnhollinger
Your point remains, but I'd say that's not much of a contest from LaVine's perspective, he's through his shooting motion before a hand goes up, he's not altering his form, arc, or shot to get it off, and has a clean look at the shot and doesn't have his vision obstructed
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While an admirable goal, an average GM would have realized this last year, and a good GM would have never been dumb enough to put these guys together in the first place.
Just spoke to one NBA insider who said that what AK is attempting to do with this roster is "ambitious, but an uphill battle." If the Bulls exec gets his way he would be without DeMar, Zach and Vooch, taking a step back for two seasons.
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Good thing he blew up the roster, it'd suck to have your lineup be:
C: WCJ
PF: Lauri
SF: Wagner
SG: Zach
PG: Haliburton (you know Gar is taking the Iowa state guy)
Bench: Coby, Ayo,
All your future picks + an extra for Thad. Thank god for AKME. Visionaries.
Artūras Karnišovas blew up the roster he inherited; only Zach LaVine and Coby White remain.
Would he do it again?
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@NBCSChicago
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Zach LaVine is paid like a guy who is your 3rd or 4th best player but critiqued like a guy who is your 10 year max player on a 40m contract that is supposed to lead you to a title. Find another non-rookie contract < 18m a year that you would blame for not being a franchise guy
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Thanks to everyone for all the good thoughts. I'm back home today and all the blood clots were completely resolved. I need to do a follow up surgery at some other point to prevent future clots, but generally a good outcome as far as these things go.
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Bulls remaining from the GarPax era: Coby White, Zach LaVine. I remember
@KCJHoop
saying we'd turnover the whole roster in a year, and he wasn't kidding.
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FYI, in the "Bulls overpaid for DeMar" conversation, besides saying I don't see how Lowry is worth even more at 3 years older, also throwing out Dinwiddie at 62M coming off an ACL as just a considerably worse player with considerable risk. Maybe there was a bigger market for DDR
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21 year old Josh Giddey's per 36 numbers in a down year where everyone hates him and thinks he sucks ass:
17.7p/9.2r/6.9a 47.5%, 33.7%, 80.6%
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ROFL. I think I need to root for a new team.
The Chicago Bulls and center Nikola Vucevic are nearing a three-year, $60 million contract extension, league sources tell
@TheAthletic
@Stadium
.
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LaVine is such a better passer than people credit him for. HE's really excellent. His turnovers are typically trying to do too much ball handling.
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Like the Craig signing. Craig and Carter as additions in the "run it back plan" were probably about as good as you can hope for. I have a lot to complain about the direction, but as I've said, I do like the execution around this poor strategy.
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It looks like the official Chicago Bulls twitter account agrees with my theory that the Bulls Nation needs to stop pretending that Vuc is their third best player.
Black jerseys for Black Friday hoops.
⏰ 6:30 pm CT
📺
@NBCSChicago
📻
@670TheScore
@MotorolaUS
|
#SeeRed
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@rorybisson
@StephNoh
If you've got a link where Clark received a more brutal foul than being grabbed by the neck while airborn and slammed to the ground on her back, please send me the link so that I may be educated.
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Just to be clear: Vuc is out. His vet min replacement is playing at a level as high or higher than Vuc's best. The takeaway is "people take Vuc for granted"? Here's a different take: People absolutely vastly overrate Vuc.
Early takeaways: People really take Vooch for granted
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@KCJHoop
@NBCSChicago
I don't know how "relevant" you think a team with 1 playoff win in 3 years is, but we'd be more relevant and better off if we hired a pet rock that just kept the inherited team together than what AK did.
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Haha, man I love these guys.
DeMar DeRozan on Zach LaVine and Bulls’ unselfish mentality: “He was trying to force me to get 40 tonight and I told him I was tired.”
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I've said it before, but I'll say it again, one of my favorite things about this team is how much love they have for each other. Reading about the locker room reaction to Coby breaking his slump was awesome
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Bronny playing with his dad should be a great story, but it's not because:
1: It feels inauthentic because the process feels both manipulated and he seems undeserving as a prospect
2: It's over saturated which draws more attention to both of the above.
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Random thought, why do the Bulls not get Zach in motion more as a three point shooter? I think he'd cause way more havoc if you had him running around like Ray Allen trying to get open, shifting the defense without the ball in his hands.
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Really nice speech by Drummond here. Still completely underrated and glad he's back.
Andre Drummond kept it real with young hoopers! 💯
"I went from $100 Million dollars to a fu**ing league minimum. They don’t care how many rebounds you get, how many threes you make. They care about you being as a person, are you a good teammate?…"
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I'll join the chorus and say, why are we not giving Coby a shot in this situation? I mean, even if you think DeMar has a tiny better chance, let's start developing Coby for that role
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For the "trading Jimmy was a mistake" crowd. If the Bulls kept Jimmy Butler and on a supermax deal right (rather than trading him), they'd have 3/135 left on the deal, would you really be happy? That was the "keep Jimmy" scenario. That looks pretty ugly to me right now.
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Not sure who is the analyst, but just said "You can have all the other rookies, I'll take this kid as rookie of the year".
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@JCowleyHoops
Joe rushing in to bust up good vibes when there's a chance to rip on a Chicago sports team
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1: Seems accurate that the Bulls and LaVine have a really broken relationship.
2: This is mainly on Bulls management. Management's job is to maintain these relationships. Zach's job is to play basketball. AK isn't on the court. Much like Jerry Krause was a fucking imbecile
"Knock-knock!"
"Who's there?"
Nobody!
Welcome to Bulls free agency, where Zach LaVine staying on the roster is a growing headache for the front office, and DeMar can't find a home. Then there's Vooch ...
Read it:
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I got to say, this Bulls team is a ton more fun to watch than the last two years. Even when they're bad, the high pace gives you great action.
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To be honest, this is on the Bulls. I would never boo a dead guy in front of his family at a ceremony, but it is not some big secret how Bulls fans feel about Krause and with good reason. The Bulls needed a better plan to mitigate this rather than hoping people are over it.
I was at the game.
I did not boo and tried to clap and cheer as much as I could when the boos started to swell.
As someone that grew up in the 90s, booing Krause is honestly just normal and expected. I get people calling it shameful/classless and a stain...
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If you are upset about Grant being traded or think the Bulls should have gotten something then look yourself in the mirror and ask if there is literally anything the FO could do that wouldn't piss you off. Guarantee none of you were excited about Grant 2 days ago.
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@KeithRuscitti
@StephNoh
My point was obvious. It was 10x as brutal and vicious. What's yours?
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Think I'm going to record a solo Bulls Beat to recap the season. What I think we will do as well as what I think we should do. Bulls are in a tough spot and must choose between a platter of bad options. I know I have at least 10 of you still subscribed.
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Thinking of the unstoppable Warriors/Heat dynasties and how quickly they really fell apart really makes you appreciate what Jordan did and also makes me realize 8 in a row wasn't going to happen, he probably really needed the break.
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One thing I'll say is that while the Bulls have had some frustrating losses lately, they're trying to re-integrate Vuc/Coby. If this team is to be for real, we need to get them going by the end of season even if it costs us some games.
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Given our team is on the low end of average, and we have a bunch of assets that are aging with declining future value and it was a seller's market, one might think that this was an excellent opportunity to pivot by selling.
Artūras Karnišovas said the Bulls were buyers in a busy trade market.
That sounds like an executive who knows his roster needs bolstering, which yet another underwhelming loss underscored.
Expect an intriguing offseason.
Column for
@NBCSChicago
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I don't think Donovan is a bad coach. Nor do I think the Bulls can get a better coach. They will almost certainly downgrade. I hope he takes the Kentucky job, because it will start the sea of change that we need.
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Would you like a Vucevic?
So, uh, I'm suddenly realizing New York's center situation now isn't.... great.
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@Salim_BGhoops
Yeah, you want to see your draft prospects go hard and test/find their limits.
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Bulls have 6 in a row.
@rob_schaef
already guaranteed 9 in a row on Bulls Talk, next 3 are Wizards (road), Magic, Wizards. If Chicago were to win those 3 and get to 9, it would match the most regular season wins in a row the Bulls have had since the Jordan era (2010 Rose team)
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Giddey final Olympic stats (4 games):
50% FG% (27/54)
47.3% 3% (9/19)
53.8% FT% (7/13)
7.25 R/g
5 A/g
4.25 TO/g
17.75 PTs/g
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Bulls offseason Plans:
Bring back DeMar on a new deal that you will hate immediately after he signs it.
Keep Vuc, because no one will take him.
Trade Zach at the lowest value he's had since coming to Chicago.
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This actually discusses almost none of the things teased about and is mostly a collection of old quotes spun together in a narrative.
Inside the Chicago Bulls' concerning dynamics, the franchise and Zach LaVine not seeing eye-to-eye, and the organization's efforts to manage the on-court disconnect with LaVine and DeMar DeRozan — with
@DarnellMayberry
at
@TheAthletic
:
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Feels like AKME is in a bad marriage with this roster. They could get everything out in the open and try to fix things. They could say it's not going to work and divorce it. They're instead just quietly enduring, doing nothing, hoping it gets better on its own.
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Ahh yes, Stacey trying to convince Bulls nation that open Zach LaVine threes are bad shots, because he missed. If he made it, he'd be screaming to go get some hot sauce.
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We tried to do something, but it was a seller's market and we didn't think we could improve our team.
@BullsBlogger
@DarnellMayberry
Bulls executives are scheduled to address the media after the draft ends.
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After 3 days inpatient, I am back home with the worst part of recovery hopefully behind me! Feels great to be back in my own bed again!
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Holy shit, if they say from Chicago with him being from Hinsdale, people will just lose their shit.
When Matas is a starter, will
@timjsinclair
say "froooooom Chicago!" or will he say "frooooooom CHICAGOLAND!"
As someone that grew up near Hinsdale, I wouldn't mind some suburban love 😂
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Been a solid (if not spectacular) off-season for Chicago. If they give up a pick to dump LaVine so they can overpay DeMar it will undo the minimal amount of good will I have regained.
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You can make an argument that Bradley and DJJ will actually impact the game more than Williams did.
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Would you trade Vuc for WCJ straight up right now? I would. That's all you need to know about what a disaster this trade has been.
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DDR deserves all the props for picking up and carrying this Bulls team to a win last night, but Dragic deserves a shout out for hitting 4 1st half threes and stopping this game from turning into a route early.
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The NBA so desperately needs to remove unnatural shooting motion fouls like that. You jump sideways just to purposefully jump into someone to create a foul. That shouldn't be rewarded. It is awful for the game.
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Why the hell do the Bulls have a 9pm local start? That's ridiculous. I mean I know why, but no less ridiculous.
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I mean, but how slow is that release speed, never getting that shot off.
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@chicagobulls
@TheRealHinrich
@JoakimNoah
I love how the players from that era seem pretty tight even though they didn't win it all, it was an awesome time to be a Bulls fan. Here's to hoping the next four years generate similar vibes.
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I've opined before that every time these guys speak, they reveal how in over their heads they are, and how they do not understand how to make decisions appropriate for their jobs. They have pulled it off yet again.
"They basically admitted that the reason they kept the core together because they felt like they owed it to DeRozan in particular" -
@kcjhoop
on why the Bulls kept their core together
Bulls Talk Podcast -
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Tonight has all the makings of a trap game. Coming off emotional back to back win, just returning from a long road trip, team you might normally overlook that generally plays hard
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