Quintus
@0xQuintus
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he sang his didn’t he danced his did. @quintus @cryptodon .lol
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We of crypto twitter have been yapping about intents for a while now so
@gakonst
and I wanted to write more than a 240 chars about the idea
In particular, it felt important to lay out the *risks* to the eth community along with the sunshine and rainbows
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Want to delve deeper into the dark forest?
Curious about the future of MEV?
Researcher looking for the hottest open problems?
Flashbots and
@ethereum
are hosting a 🔥 workshop on MEV + PBS research at SBC ‘22
⚡️Stanford; 1st of Sept⚡️
Application link:
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Unedited recording of SBC MEV Workshop for those who can't stand the wait 🤖
Prettier, edited version coming soon
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The interface between a protocol and its users is at the core of MEV
I did my best to aggregate all the useful info on PBS in one place, including a bunch of open questions relating both to mainnet and other chains/L2s
Let me know what I missed
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⚠️ New post dropped ⚠️
On the dangers of order flow for the builder market
Soon to be followed by part II
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Individual videos for MEV workshop at SBC are up and attached to the agenda
Enjoy 😉 ⚡️
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1) yesterday at Columbia,
@drakefjustin
gave a great talk outlining an approach to building encrypted mempools as a means to dealing with sandwiches (mafiaEV) and censorship
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A bunch of recent developments are pointing at the coming of integrated builder-relays
I wrote a post to summarise why I think this the case and to identify some things that we could do in response
Looking to get the thoughts of others here
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One of our researchers Christoph and
@kakia1989
strike again with a seminal look at shared sequencing economics
Shared sequencers are often thought of as a way to enhance MEV revenue for rollups and this paper examines whether and when this is true - with some surprises
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When should a blockchain sell its blockspace?
Some designs propose that blockchains sell the right to produce a block way in advance of a slot in contrast to how MEV-Boost works on Ethereum today
@ConorMcMenamin9
and I wrote a post to unpack this a bit
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People keep asking how SUAVE will build blocks so we posted one of our ideas for how it could work
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I had a few people ask me how SUAVE would ever be able to produce competitive blocks. I think this question comes mostly from the fact that we have explained things mostly from the user angle and not the searcher/builder angle
A few thoughts:
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feels like chains requiring their blocks to come from TEEs is an obvious move and is bound to happen in the next few years
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Its a bird! Its a plane! Its an MEV article to liven up your Monday evening 🤠
This article builds on a previous post and looks at order flow auctions as a way to counteract the dangers of exclusive order flow
⚠️ New post dropped ⚠️
On the dangers of order flow for the builder market
Soon to be followed by part II
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A bunch of bikini models who just joined twitter have recently gotten really into TEEs
Either that or there’s a new wave of twitter bots
I know which I’m choosing to believe
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The sender of a calendly link is able to perform a stackelberg attack but they give up last look
the value of sending vs receiving a calendly link depends on schedule volatility and the computational cost of updating availability (aka time liquidity)
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Some call it shared sequencing
others call it access lists and local fee markets
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mev microstructure quiz
searcher X knows what the state of the chain will be after the next block some time period t before that information is public
how can X exercise their advantage?
how significant is the advantage?
how does the advantage grow as function of t/blocktime?
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Its amazing how often the “we’re all building the same thing” realisation happens in crypto. Happened again this week.
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Breaking revelation: if we delegate ethereum sequencing to a single sequencer, we can get trusted preconfirmations
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Are you ready for some MEV-pilling, anon?
Too far or couldn't get a ticket? Follow us further down the rabbit hole from afar:
Haven't applied? Do so. We saved some JIT seats for latecomers
Been accepted? Register on eventbrite or get risk being frontrun
Want to delve deeper into the dark forest?
Curious about the future of MEV?
Researcher looking for the hottest open problems?
Flashbots and
@ethereum
are hosting a 🔥 workshop on MEV + PBS research at SBC ‘22
⚡️Stanford; 1st of Sept⚡️
Application link:
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It’s funny that people meme the AI<>crypto narratives and yet most volume on chain is algorithmic trading and tg bots trading for degens and then probably bots backrunning those with all the txns being algorithmically ordered
Keep making bots/algos smarter and what do you get?
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Listening to
@Tim_Roughgarden
talk about what makes mechanism design in blockchain harder than traditional settings at columbia today was incredibly inspiring
really feels like solving coordination problems in the space will extend way past blockchain, changing the game fr fr
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Searchers rn
We are excited to release Reth v0.1.0-alpha! 🎉🎉🎉
Reth is a modular, contributor-friendly, and blazing-fast Ethereum node, in Rust, using the Apache/MIT license.
Let's unpack what is behind today's release.
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Some good news, frens
We have secured a larger venue and have capacity for more MEV-curious folks
If you're still around after SBC, come join us at the same venue ⚡️
Are you ready for some MEV-pilling, anon?
Too far or couldn't get a ticket? Follow us further down the rabbit hole from afar:
Haven't applied? Do so. We saved some JIT seats for latecomers
Been accepted? Register on eventbrite or get risk being frontrun
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Blockchains sit at the intersection of cryptography, distributed systems and economics
Focusing only on one or two of the three lenses (eg honest majority assumption) doesn't quite cut it
Our paper attempts to bring a holistic conversation around encrypted mempools to the fore
New paper analyzing the tradeoffs of using Threshold Encryption as an MEV mitigation tool, in collab with
@0xQuintus
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Coming to ~understand Anoma was an insightful experience for me and it seems all cleanly laid out here
Highly recommended read
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did my best to formulate some DeFi<>Info Theory/Computational Learning Theory/Information Design/??? questions.
If you're mathy or like CS theory and looking for some interesting problems with real applications, look no further
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These talks give a very nice overview of the state of MEV research
If you're not that familiar, I recommend starting with
@0xFanZhang
et al's SoK
Talk recordings from the MEV Workshop at SBC are now available! Linked beside each speaker on the agenda here:
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A bunch of cool papers came out in the last few days (presumably after the EC deadline?)
* there's two from
@ConorMcMenamin9
and
@vdazaf
* Credible auctions from
@tarunchitra
@MatheusVXF
and
@ks_kulk
* CR in auctions from
@MaxResnick1
@malleshpai
@eljhfx
What did I miss?
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everyone panicking about nyc air today should just take a deep breath
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Ha I bet none of these happy looking couples have an informed opinion on ePBS
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Surprised that
@tzhen
didn’t try to hire Sam Altman
Left unhired for a few more hours and we would have seen the most elaborate last-min cyrptoxai researchathon pop up in SF
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I have cumulatively spent years of my life jumping through ill-defined bureaucratic hoops and lost even more in lifespan from the stress this entailed - all to be able to cross some lines in the sand
Well-travelled american: “what does a visa look like?”
😭
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Short term censorship resistance is one of the most fundamental and valuable features that can be added to Ethereum
There’s also a grant to work on it
Mike and I sketched out a design for bringing multiple concurrent proposers to Ethereum. Here is a preview: 1/n
🧵
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the model suggests that for some ordering rules, shared sequencers end up producing *lower* revenue than independent sequencers - adding nuance to the discussion about MEV rebates
paper and discussion here:
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The MEV panel at
@BlockchainatCU
’s ledgerfest is going to be 🔥
@bertcmiller
@jon_charb
@0xMagmar
+ someone from a formidable searcher team
Honoured to be moderating 😇
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its weird how many people want to know more about MEV and how much good research goes under the radar
don’t miss the alpha
FRP is the Flashbots community grants program⚡️🤖
This post highlights MEV research funded through FRP including studies of:
*private mempools
*the impact of frontrunning
*AMM design
*auction design
*PBS
*credible commitments
+ 7 ongoing projects
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This whole post basically to say:
* oval is not a chainlike product
* oval can introduce delays?
Wonder if you parameterise to a 1 block delay what the worst could be?
Not like oracle tx have guaranteed inclusion in blocks as it is🤔
Chainlink is committed to helping the blockchain and DeFi industry manage the challenging and multilayered dynamics of onchain value extraction from oracle reports, now being called Oracle Extractable Value (OEV).
Chainlink has been working on solving the complex problems around
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MEV use cases are latency-sensitive so ZK tech is still some orders of magnitude from getting there for ePBS and similar
what we do have today is TEE proofs *shrugs*
Side note: an EVM (zk)validity proof gives builders more flexibility but technology is not quite there yet.
8/
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Lots of controversy around arbitrum txn sequencing proposal
Putting aside the actual implementation, it’s awesome that crypto gives us the opportunity to experiment with new mechanisms like this.
Lots of experiments and a lot of it in the open
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Added some useful wiki's to the flashbots forum:
* a wiki to keep track of SUAVE-related talks, posts and discussions for people to get up to speed quickly
* a wiki for MEV data (shill your dashboard/tool/analysis/api here)
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An early-stage investor that does economics research?
Call that a VC G
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@tzhen
@0xQuintus
@ks_kulk
@zmanian
@cwgoes
@tarunchitra
@GwartyGwart
We’ve have been busy prepping the jiujitsu mats and last minute cage rentals, good news is that there are enough folding chairs ay the club already
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What will be valuable in the metaverse? Land seems unlikely to be the answer. Instead, we should look to what is valuable on web 2 for some insights.
I explore this idea in Land, Teleportation & Web Dynamics In The Metaverse:
🧵/7 👇🏻
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This is a big deal.
Flashbots has been thinking about this for a while 🤔
giving a talk on this at MEV workshop at SBC so stay tuned
🚨Private orderflow & the block builder market🚨
Recent censorship concerns are thankfully waking the community up to some of the threats that we need to build around
But now we need to talk about the next topic nobody is talking about yet - exclusive private orderflow
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Some lovely research questions outlined here. DM if you’re interested on working on them.
More fleshed out list to coming soon (tm)
7/ Other questions on my mind
-allocation/welfare impact of privacy gadgets
-considerations on consensus, latency, more on side channels & robustness
-design trade-offs on how to implement: separate L1, some kind of L2, and how these change with MEV distribution across domains
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feel like the hype around intents is better framed as people coming round to the limitations of transactions than discovering a new paradigm
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I had a lot of fun on bell curve earlier this week. Thought I would expand a bit on my ramblings
Penultimate episode of Bell Curve w.
@hasufl
is LIVE.
In this episode, we spoke to
@0xQuintus
and
@barnabemonnot
about the future of MEV.
This was a can't miss, enjoy!
Apple:
Spotify:
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This is great. We could use more formality in analysing what happens between order creation and execution.
What happens when we apply this framework to threshold encrypted mempools, RFQ, CLOB's etc? Can you prove that your "MEV solution" is better than another?
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it feels really clear that there is a gravitational pull for most off-chain financial applications to be subsumed by the builder role who has more info (e.g. can route optimally against state)
good for efficiency and bad for decentralisation: that's why we need suave
How's
@CoWSwap
work?
Poor user just donated $140K to an MEV bot because of a bad Uniswap V1 leg.
Did they specify some massive slippage?
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What's the most comprehensive doc covering PBS?
Ideally should take someone who knows blockchains relatively well but nothing about PBS to a point where they understand both the abstraction of PBS and the current market setup relatively well
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Intents aim to allow users to give control over their assets to third parties, but to finely tune exactly how much control you give.
Basically a user signs a message "any state transition that satisfies [these conditions] has my approval"
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Coredevs HATE this one simple trick to get PREMIUM blockspace with NO FEES
Ultrahyperscale DA. Celestia’s demise
🧱🔀 Programmable block space is more than just transactions anon! Using SUAVE
@MihaLotric
👨💻 was able to build an auction for the extra data in an L1 block! 🎯 See the demo below, live on SUAVE ☀️ and Goerli 🌐. Programmable block space future is coming soon! 🧠🔨 ✨
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Be there or be a shape that’s not an oval
Join UMA’s founder
@hal2001
🥚 for the live launch of Oval on this special
@Blockworks_
podcast.
Hosted by
@MikeIppolito_
of Blockworks, with
@tarunchitra
of Gauntlet and
@0xQuintus
of Flashbots.
Today (Tuesday) - 10:30am EST / 7:30am PST / 15:30 UTC
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One of the most thought provoking tweets in this space
and a good meme too
One of the most thought provoking pieces in this space.
Expedient intent implementations are a continuation and magnification of existing centralization of MEV supply chain. And god I see so many bad intent implementations that just centralizes the market.
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This paper feels relevant in context of Uniswap X announcement
(from a flashbots research grant 😝)
Increase your OFA auction revenue with this one simple trick! Auction theorists hate him!
New working paper released: Contingent Fees in Order Flow Auctions
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We've heard of CLOBs and batch auctions
They're well studied in academia but in crypto, we see some much weirder stuff
Block building and the auctions around it (like MEV-share and blocker) are mostly unstudied theoretically... until now
1/
Glad to announce the completion of my research on the game theory of arbitrage and blind sandwiching in backrun auctions such as MEV-Share & MEV-Blocker. Big thanks to Flashbots and their FRP programme for funding this work!
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The most informative public communication about SUAVE yet
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What are the best resources exploring the argument for burn as a means of redistribution/welfare maximisation?
@weboftrees
@jon_charb
@drakefjustin
@domothy
@TrustlessState
@TimBeiko
@apolynya
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very meaningful consensus research direction
@_danielmarzec
@MaxResnick1
Was planning to release this ROP next week but we'd be interested to think more about it! h/t to
@0xQuintus
for sharing your note too, great stuff to get started
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What if Lido charged a minimum tip to be included in any of their blocks (PEPC style) then gave discounts for holding LDO
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Lido has incentive to ensure all staked eth be under Lido’s control
Lido makes deal with newly launching but highly anticipated “AVS” to accept only steth as collateral in exchange for some revshare over several years
Now other staking tokens need to strike similar deals or die
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One of those things that’s so useful, you kind of can’t believe it didn’t exist before
Excited to share a new Flashbots blog post and dashboard illuminating Ethereum’s order flow market.
Links below!
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There are a bunch of way of structuring an order flow auction
There seem to be some common problems/characteristics with a bunch of the designs which mostly relate to:
- info exposure
- granularity of auction
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this attention has been mostly about the positives (and definitions) but we should probably also be thinking about what can go wrong
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"applications integrating across the stack" seems like a natural theme following modularity
sequencing, exec, DA layers + bb layer (solver/intent nwks, suave) + avs
we can leverage these layers better by spreading app logic across them
cosmos ahead in this w block sdk
Oval helps lending protocols capture millions of dollars of free money each year.
But MEV capture is only possible thanks to the infrastructure built by Flashbots.
Oval is the first application built on Flashbot’s MEV-Share protocol. Here’s why that matters.🥚👇
Flashbots is
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two essays that need to be written:
* free markets, collectivism and mev
* information, time and the mev search for happiness
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wat do?
probably depends on the application but people setting up intent infra should be aware of these issues
the ol' adage still seems relevant
* illuminate
* democratise (access to order flow, lower barriers to entry)
* distribute (prevent rent seeking/entrnchment)
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Stressful day, excellent outcome and almost none of CT is even aware
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Nothing says we’re so back like a Bert bot thread 🥹
A brief thread on a novel MEV searching strategy, where we chase the trail of a mysterious bot backrunning private flow and reveal how they do it.
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💫🌺Crypto as the substrate for AI coordination 🌺🥹
NeurIPS 2023 is upon us
At the Multi-agent Security workshop on Saturday,
@sxysun1
we'll be presenting our recent work on using Blockchains as infrastructure to guarantee AI security & cooperation
"Cooperative AI via Decentralized Commitment Devices"
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What's the bull case for not minimising MEV? (where minimisation includes MEV flowing back to user)
Economic security budget?
@tarunchitra
and
@ks_kulk
's argument/findings that MEV and DeFi yield are correlated so MEV disincentivises validator unstaking for yield farming?
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I need some source(s) to cite for the claim that “a lot of DeFi volume goes through private rpcs” (e.g. RFQs, bundle API’s, direct from builder)
Any recs?
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no agenda better than a Tina agenda
... The Cathedral and the MEVzaar
10am-6pm GMT, Mar 12, London
Registration:
Livestream:
Agenda is live now on (Yes, that's the link!)
Pre-reading homework will be up tonight.
Prep
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but permissioned "intentpools" have a lot of risks associated:
- if the wrong set is given exclusive access to intents, this risks centralising the builder market ()
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This kind of brings things to life
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The irony of not getting a ticket
“wtf”
The first set of speakers for is confirmed, and Wave 1 of general acceptance tickets has gone out yesterday 📬
If you applied, check you email! We'll be sending out another batch of tickets, and announcing more speakers, in the next day or two 🕳️🐇
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A good paper for peeps working on encrypted mempools. Looks at decryptor latency advantages
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Of all the layers of the crypto stacks, the front end will be the most powerful
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this should sound familiar bc intents aren't really new (think CoWswap, some RFQs)
for some reason (maybe 4337 and anoma, suave entering the zeitgeist) the topic has gained a lot of attention recently
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Is the idea with solana fees that eventually a transaction will be charged more for touching two “hotspots” (interfering w parallelism) than for touching those those two hotspots in separate txs?
Cc
@PGarimidi
@0xShitTrader
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* Tokens on binance: give up all control to cz but slick UX
* Self-custody and sending transactions: retain max sovereignty but u have to do a lot of work
What's in between? Intents
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@MaxResnick1
@thegostep
Not saying the conclusion is wrong, but seems hard to draw conclusions from an audience where a lot of the smartest practitioners have a habit and inventive of being very secretive
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You often hear cryptopolitics takes like “ethereum is like a country, l2s are like…” etc which are useful
But I feel like the validators-as-political-entities perspective is underrepresented (except maybe in cosmos?)
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Agree with
@bertcmiller
that the market structure implications of tickets need to be explored more
cool idea though
Related post
a small christmas present 🎁 for cryptotwitter – we are ecstatic to share "Execution Tickets," an idea from
@drakefjustin
on a reimagined blockspace market!
dive into the design + implications here↓
👽🎟️
thanks for reading, and see you next year🎄🪩🎉
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What if the MEV supply chain has two poles? and the real economic game is between users and validators across time?
Where is the middle between the poles and what happens there?
The rabbithole really is deep
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@DavideCrapis
@0x94305
@0xMikolaj
@bertcmiller
Can someone host a twitter spaces/podcast with
@DavideCrapis
@phildaian
and
@0x94305
on this already? Maybe
@drakefjustin
too since he has the relay perspective
@hasufl
:eyes:
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