zhekson
@zhekree
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Cardano, p2p-DeFi, and other musings. Operator of P2PFI Pool. I dream for the Semantic Web.
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Pinned Tweet
Cardano-Swaps is officially in Beta!
- Native Composability
- Endogenous liquidity; NO YIELD FARMING
- Market-driven concurrency
- Fees 10x lower than other DEXes
Link below for all the details.
Here's a brief TLDR for all you lazies: 🧵👇
#Cardano
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Cardano-swaps is a PoC DEX protocol that takes full advantage of the concurrency offered by eUTxO.
Users deploy (and interact with each others’) script addresses, so full delegation control is never sacrificed.
Feedback is welcome!
@Cardano
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🚨 DROP ALERT 🚨
The p2p-DeFi Protocol Family seeks to establish the basic building blocks of fully p2p finance on
#Cardano
. It’s a set of radically permissionless and synergistically composable plutus contracts. Today, we’ve got two new protocols!
🧵👇
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Cardano-Loans is a PoC lending/borrowing protocol that empowers users to build a CSL-native credit/debt market via negotiable p2p loans, pseudonymous credit histories, and full delegation control.
Tired of legacy banks? Let’s build our own.
@Cardano
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Our proposal is in!
The P2P-DeFi project is a ground-level reimagining of eUTxO-based finance. By prioritizing resiliency & composability, we have the ability to build a truly independent economy on
#Cardano
.
We look forward to receiving your feedback!
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A call for feedback:
P2P-DeFi Protocols results:
Amount Requested: ₳483,600
YES: ₳104,638,674
NO: ₳107,124,324
Result: NOT APPROVED
To all those who voted No - we humbly ask for your feedback. What aspects of our proposal are you not aligned with, and what (if anything)
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Huge performance gains thanks to
@aiken_eng
!💪
Some rough benchmarks:
25-33 swap creations, in one Tx!
11-14 swap executions, in one Tx!
>50 swap closes, in one Tx!
This translates to fees as low as 0.2 ADA per swap execution, or ~1.5 ADA for >10 swaps in one Tx!
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IOG’s new Maravedi protocol allows third parties to trade latency risk on the CSL. This gives the
#CardanoCommunity
great flexibility in adjusting the latency parameters of Leios, without sacrificing finality time.
Pin this for future parameter debates!
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End users (the billions) don't care about blockchains, they just want awesome products. Unfortunately, most DeFi "Protocols" are not really protocols, but are *products* that target end users. See the problem? Grandma and Uncle Bob aren't puritans.
Idealistic 90's techies were
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@Justin_Bons
@LucidCiC
You said you are comparing with BTC’s UTxO, but in the previous tweet said “consistent TPS standard is useful” - so which one is it?
If we’re talking fundamentals (as opposed to what “most people do”) then the fact that most people do single TXs is irrelevant. It’s like saying
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My interpretation of
@JaredCorduan
's message:
Powerful forces stand between the ideal of fairness and the reality of money, power, and influence. So for those believers willing to toil away for a better system, grab a shovel, grit your teeth, pray for guidance in the fray.
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REFRESHER:
Cardano-Swaps is a member of the p2p-DeFi family. It is a "distributed" DEX that enables:
1. Full asset custody (including full delegation + voting control)
2. Native Composability with ALL existing dApps
3. High availability guarantees (equal to Cardano itself)
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Friendly reminder to vote for P2P-DeFi Protocols - a family of open protocols that brings true p2p-DeFi to
#Cardano
!
Check out the proposal if you haven’t already. We need your support!
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NEWS
There are now 2 types of swaps!
1. One-way swap: basic limit order
2. Two-way swap: bidirectional limit orders, enabling market makers to provide liquidity without relying on yield farming!
The latter means Cardano-Swaps can now directly incentivize its own liquidity!
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The P2P-DeFi project is just getting started - we need people to help test it out and beat it up! Get started here with a batteries-included CLI:
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Big thank you to
@COSDpool
,
@N8iveToEarth
, Terminada, and others for your input. Community feedback here and on Github is invaluable!
Anyone with technical questions / ideas is welcome to DM the chief architect:
@__fallen_icarus
We look forward to further feedback! 🙏
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WHY IS THIS USEFUL?
Isn't it annoying when assets are priced in one stablecoin but you only have another?
Two-way swaps eliminate this divide by enabling MMs to unify stablecoin liquidity - this applies to other assets too!
Here's an example:
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Cardano-Swaps has been rewritten in Aiken, and now supports up to 14 swaps per transaction.
Cardano-Loans will also be rewritten in Aiken, and will support compounding interest, periodic minimum repayments, and trade-able “Bond” NFTs.
🧵👇
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@cardano_whale
In the Endgame, I see Cardano as the highest level of organization (Federation-level) of the network state. It ties together a more loosely associated number of syndicates (sidechains/other subnetworks), each of which is composed of real-world worker-coalitions/communities.
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@KiriakosKappa
Our belief in, and commitment to, the paradigm of P2P-DeFi remains firm. We will continue development to the best of our capacity, and look forward to seeing where it takes us.
Look out Fund 11!💪
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"Okay, but orderbooks have concurrency issues..."
Not necessarily! Contention is only an issue when end-users are "racing" for MM's, but not the other way around!
Here's how Cardano-Swaps incentivizes a market-driven concurrency solution:
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Cardano-Options is a p2p-DeFi protocol for writing and buying American-style covered options contracts.
Options are trade-able on an aftermarket in the form of an NFT; whoever owns the NFT can exercise the underlying option.
Speaking of which…
🧵👇
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BEACON TOKENS!
Each swap-pair now contains a total of 3 Beacon Tokens, enabling more expressive querying:
1. Ask Beacon: for the asset being requested
2. Offer Beacon: for the asset being offered
3. Pair Beacon: for the trading pair
Sorting UTxOs has never been easier!
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There is now a single, universal validator & minting script-pair for all trading pairs! (One-way and two-way swaps each have their own pair).
This means a total of 4 on-chain scripts govern the entire functionality of Cardano-Swaps!
8/
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@berry_ales
Cerberus is by far the most interesting BFT protocol I’ve seen, I agree it’s quite promising tech. The problem is it still carries the tradeoffs of BFT, chiefly public slot leaders and consistency > liveness. IMO these properties are *categorically off the table* if we aspire to
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After some initial skepticism of this proposal, the discussion in this space has turned my opinion around. I am especially interested in the idea of a light in-browser “passive” node that would make interacting with dApps more permissionless. For what it’s worth,
@MicheleHarmonic
Catalyst Spotlight:
@hlabs_tech
Join our space today with
@MicheleHarmonic
to discuss their Catalyst proposal on an alternate node proposal!
With guests
@_KtorZ_
,
@adamKDean
,
@Quantumplation
,
@AnastasiaLabs
,
@UnpopularEL
&
@zhekree
!
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Cardano-Secondary-Market is a p2p-DeFi aftermarket protocol for buying/selling NFTs. It is especially useful for financialized NFTs, where time impacts their value.
🧵👇
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@zygomeb
@TobiasIlskov
@bisoncoin_io
@Power2theEdge
@TheOCcryptobro
@SoorajKSaju
Imo this whole thread misses the core idea that Cardano and Radix are addressing fundamentally different problems.
Back in the original 2016 essay, Big Hosky himself spelled it out - the way to address the boogeyman that is the blockchain trilemma is to explicitly separate high
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Hot take: if fixed supply (I.e. 21M BTC) monetary policies are the supposed “opposites” of discretionary (fiat) policies, perhaps a rules-based monetary policy (i.e. tail emission) is a reasonable middle ground.
Full transparency and fairness to all participants, while still
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@cardano_whale
All of those things do not depend on the US govt. Theyve set nothing back, perhaps even made things better - making ADA temporarily cheaper for those that need low prices most.
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@1Love4allbeings
@JoriPLevy
@yachtwallace
Eventually, yes, but then $1M USD won’t be what it is today.
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Feedback here or on Github is greatly appreciated. We look forward to hearing from you!
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Hot take:
Long term, p2p-DeFi will make DAO-managed DEXes are unnecessary.
However, such (existing) DEXes are in a great position to become the future market makers of truly decentralized finance!
Assets are already pooled, and their tokens are already issued!
🤔
#Cardano
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@conraddit
And as a buyer, you can compose all these protocols into a single transaction. Here’s an example:
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@monad_alexander
Thanks
@monad_alexander
!
Cardano was built for dApps like these!
And we will be applying for Fund10!
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@WallStreetSilv
Tech will save us from tech!
Coal -> Climate Change -> Green Energy
Infiniporn -> Low Birth Rates -> Immortality & Bottled Babies
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@berry_ales
Ultimately we need full stack p2p DeFi built on standardized open protocols.
Liquidity arises organically/conservatively. No “DeFi Tokens” (unless they incentivize NECESSARY hardware).
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@berry_ales
100% on the composability front.
Batchers are an issue insofar as they are permissioned or semi-permissioned (and therefore siloed on a per-dApp basis).
Competing “third party” permissionless MMs is the way.
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@cardano_whale
@bisq_network
“Our own on-ramps”
100% agreed. We need a family of open p2p-DeFi protocols that does not rely on oracles or permissioned batchers. Such protocols would offer the strongest censorship resistance / availability guarantees of any DeFi architecture. An independent Cardano economy.
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@chepurnoy
People are using applications with a (decentralized) blockchain backend component, without knowing or even caring.
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@adabreathesAIR
Cardano-Loans Aiken rewrite incoming…
…did somebody say “Compounding Interest” ? 👀
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@TheOCcryptobro
@Cardano
@CryptoIRELAND1
TVL without context is meaningless, just like TPS.
For example, what if we could have DEXes that never lock users’ assets?
Oh wait, we can!
ADA can be swapped AND delegated, all without TVL.
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@berry_ales
> with scaling in mind you can go to even higher levels of decentralization because more validators means more throughput
More throughput yes, but at the cost of availability guarantees. Less validators per shard = more for other shards but higher risk of THAT shard being
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@berry_ales
You mean you don't believe in the paradigm of L2s?
Whole point of Cardano L1 is settlement/root of trust with minimum viable programmability to tie other execution layers together, as cohesively (or not) as needed.
Explicit separation of concerns/responsibility is the MO...
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@Quantumplation
@buxdabomb
100% agree for Hydra Head
BUT
BLS signatures + recursive SNARKs = asynchronous state channels.
a.k.a. Hydra Tail
a.k.a. Magic sauce.
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Voting for:
k = 500; saturation caps should not precede community readiness for the great responsibility of decentralization. A LOT of SPO standards (OPSEC, comms, fault tolerance, e.t.c.) not yet fully established imo.
AND
minFee = 170; SPOs should be allowed to set fees.
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@matiwinnetou
Yea, comparing TVL across chains is like comparing TPS - doesn’t take into account architectural differences.
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@GalilergGalilei
@monad_alexander
Were the first American settlers disproportionately rewarded for investing early? No. They took a high risk play, and it paid off. The whales you speak of did so too - investing at a time when Cardano was nothing more than a promise.
Skin-in-the-game incentives != neofeudalism
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@LouieandBooie
Imagine if anyone can withdraw your assets (from YOUR wallet), provided they return some other (requested) asset(s) in the same Tx.
No oracles
No batcherss
No "DEX Tokens"
No external dependencies
Full delegation/voting control.
Now, extrapolate...
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Every time I hear mention of the imminent danger of AI generated deepfakes/misinformation, I want to grab them and yell “DIDs” in their face.
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@TobiasFancee
BFT protocols (like Radix) sacrifice liveness; public leader schedule (easy to DDOS), 33% halt with no self-healing (manual restart necessary), e.t.c.
imo “The” Endgame L1 should not sacrifice resiliency/liveness; Nakamoto > BFT
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@JCRYPTO_YT
Sorry guys my connection will be spotty for hours. Will summarize my take on consensus here:
Consistency - all nodes (in a given scope, i.e. Shard) have the same view/state at any given time. Can use this as an assumption of synchrony for extra speed.
Liveness - chain
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@monad_alexander
@QCPOLstakepool
Again, ADA is not a security, so it does not make sense for us to *not* “bear the cost” of the allocation.
If you buy oil, it doesn’t matter if you agree with the position of Aramco or OPEC. You must accept it, or don’t buy oil.
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@berry_ales
Agreed, so do you believe Cardano is lacking such composability?
For reference: a composable NFT aftermarket protocol.
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@berry_ales
Not all “dApps” need atomic composability, some may only need the strong security/settlement properties of CSL for snapshots (I.e. WMT)
Also, side chains that use the full Hydra stack (including Tail) can have the best of both worlds! (I.e. Hypercycle)
Optionality is King.
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For CS people:
Endgame
#Cardano
operates at a higher level than “them”/governments. It’s only natural they will have *some* control. The question is:
How much and when?
Do we fight by disallowing CEXs from participating?
We can still sidestep them w/ zk++
@monad_alexander
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@zygomeb
@Quantumplation
@berry_ales
It’s “cheaper, easier” with batchers, not flat-out cheaper.
And yes, the question is: does the straightforwardness of permissioned batchers warrant composability (AND liveness) sacrifices?
I think not.
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@hlabs_tech
As much as I’d love to see client diversity, its premature imo.
Coordinating protocol updates or just client updates across multiple implementations while maintaining security will be hard. Better to wait for a formalized Agda spec - will make this process much easier.
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@berry_ales
Polka isn't expressive enough, though Cardano does lean into sidechains which were pioneered by the former.
Hydra is one of the many styles of execution layers that will be needed.
IE is kinda unrelated - this whole discussion would be equally valid if IE was live right now.
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@gabscrypto
@monad_alexander
Neutrality != Disregard
How inclusive is Cardano if businesses cannot comply with local regulations, even if they wanted to?
The point of decentralization is to accommodate all regulatory regimes, while beholden to none of them.
We don’t “fight” governments with anarchy. We
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@chepurnoy
Bringing that same energy over to Cardano!
p2p-DeFi contracts give us the basic building blocks for scalable on chain finance!
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On
#Cardano
voting:
Hiding votes during the voting period may be useful for mitigating bias.
HOWEVER
SPOs voting on k is extremely meta - the results of the vote elucidates A LOT about the very thing that is being voted on.
Does this impact our system of checks and balances?
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@monad_alexander
I appreciate you shining a light on the existence of conflicts/tensions at IOG. You said you believe "it" to be unsalvageable at this point - I'm curious what you believe the point-of-no-return is, and why/when/how it was crossed.
It's one thing if Charles
I believe Charles has materially misrepresented the state of Cardano while dumping his bags @~$3 (allegedly for T-bills 🤣)
No longer believe it to be salvageable, but if you're interested in making it work, some serious housecleaning and disinfecting needs to take place.
(2/3)
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@conraddit
@gllereta
Yep! It’s a working prototype. The hard part is the perennial chicken or the egg problem that we in blockchain land keep running into!
It will take a GIGANTIC community effort to bootstrap enough liquidity here to compete with existing DEXes. Long run though, it is the way.
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@monad_alexander
CS at its core is not about regulatory compliance, it is about freedom of assocaiation.
Let the global SPO marketplace decide what is or isn’t the right way to operate a pool.
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@AlfonsoSpencer9
Worth mentioning this is an evolving WIP! Beacon Tokens can be thought of as a “Standard of standards” that are necessary for a variety of radically distributed “p2p” dApp architectures, including and not limited to DEXes. This is eUTxO endgame… stay tuned for more!
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@GalilergGalilei
They will vote in ways they believe will maximize the price of ADA. How else to do that besides the flourishing of Cardano?
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@GalilergGalilei
@monad_alexander
Clowns are those who do not address the other’s point.
My point here is that in a plutocracy, incentives are aligned to maximize value of the underlying resource. For the Roman land-owners, it meant the flourishing of Rome. For ADA holders, it is the flourishing of Cardano.
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Take great care not to confuse the hand of evil with the face of evil.
Or else how could you aim for the head?
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@berry_ales
@zygomeb
@TobiasIlskov
@bisoncoin_io
@Power2theEdge
@TheOCcryptobro
@SoorajKSaju
A fallback in the sense that other layers/chains will use Cardano as a snapshot/settlement mechanism. So if something breaks on the sidechain, it can reboot from the last CSL commitment. Nature and frequency of commitments depends on the needs of a particular sidechain.
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@SebastienGllmt
Regulatory ease is a relatively small subset of CS. CS itself is about freedom of (and from) association.
Rollups can be one solution to the question of regulation, but they cannot be the only solution, as this would silo large chunks of the ecosystem.
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@SoorajKSaju
@The_cryptobear
@TrymBruset
Closer to ~2-3ish years in my estimation, but yea it might take a while.
In the meantime, pooled protocols are not terrible. Maybe
@axotrade
will come through and demolish everyone anyway.
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@berry_ales
To what extent are domain-specific L2s insufficient WHERE and WHEN state needs to be synchronized?
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@cardano_whale
Cardano was always meant to be the alternative to ALL of those entities.
Time to walk the talk.
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@zygomeb
@0xNLYFANS
@ADAbreathes
Stage 3: Network of BFT sequencer networks
Stage 4: Radix on Cardano
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