grace🍼
@hyukimycutie
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Bunny. Babie. Cutie. Mochie. Mushroom. Cheekies. Pudding. Coconut. Nation's Filial Son. Kpop ace. My whole world. The love of my life✨ HYUKJAE ✨
Joined October 2010
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"When I'm falling down, down, down, you always save me"
I am lucky to have existed in this life time where Hyukkie exists too. Happy birthday my whole world 💙
38 ROSES FOR EUNHYUK
#4
랑에_4랑을더한_은혁이생일
#BEwithEunhyuk
@AllRiseSilver
#EUNHYUK
#은혁
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I'm at NCT 127 concert. Section 1C. I stood waaaay behind and I can tell you, NO ONE FROM THE BACK WAS PUSHING. I COULD EVEN DANCE AND ROLL MY HIPS. It's the people at the middle to the front!! They kept pushing!!
#TheLinkinJKT
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The fact that Kyuhyun FREAKING BOW to Reza Arap and he DIDN'T EVEN FLINCH. Not even nodding his head. Your manner's stoop down to the underground
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Gue juga sangat mau point out the behaviour of the fans. Bodo amat ya kalo habis ini lo pd mau serang gue bodoo wkwk. Gue dateng the link day 1 & 2. Gue dtg TDS day 1 & 2. TDS kmrn ini penontonnya banyak sekaliiii adik2 masih usia SMA, kuliah. Banyak orgtua yang nunggu di luar
@myautumninseoul
kenapa yaa cuma menyudutkan promotornya aja, harusnya fans juga bisa introspeksi diri, ga ada qn pun sebenernya bisa aja konser jalan asal fans juga taat aturan dan ga dorong2an cuma demi buat konten boys at school never look at me sama dapet sign ball
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We've already moved far back!!! But those at the middle part didn't even move. It's so embarrassing. Taeyong, Doyoung, Haechan even gave command for them to move BUT NO ONE MOVED
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Rest in Peace, Papa Lee. A man with a beautiful heart and big love for his family. I'm glad I got to know you through Mr. House Husband and Ildan Eunhyukee. My love, thoughts, and prayers are with my dearest Hyukjae, Sora Eonnie, and especially Mama Lee. God please be with them.
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Gue simpulkan penonton TDS ini banyak yang usianya jauh lebih muda, compared with The Link. Tapi tau gasih? Adek2 ini semua tau batasan. TDS Day 1 sebelah gue persis ada anak usia 17 tahun. Dia udh kecapekan akhirnya dia mundur ke belakang dan duduk. DIA GA MAKSAIN DIRI.
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Mau promotor sebaik apa juga, kalo sikap fansnya MAYORITAS pada dablek, akan tetep rusuh. Jadi sebelum lo tunjuk 1 jari tangan lo ke orang lain, lo liat ada 3 jari yang nunjuk balik ke arah diri lo sendiri. Alias INTROSPEKSI.
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Lucu sekaligus miris bagi gue, how the YOUNGER FANS can behave and know their limits COMPARED WITH THE OLDER ONES. Kaya yang kita tau juga, si topi subak & teman2nya itu bahkan semua orang kerja. Org dewasa.
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It's really sad to see. Got it on camera too, how we've moved even far back but no one in front of us was moving. It's really sad. I feel bad for NCT 127 too...
#TheLinkinJKT
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Felt like I need to say this. Saw a psychologist say something about being a fan. She said for us to be the supporter of, let's say, Eunhyuk of SJ or Mark Lee of NCT or any other artists (this is just an example). Support them for what they bring to the stage. Don't even try to-
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Rest assure us from the back did not push one another. We even screamed at them to move back BUT NO ONE MOVED!!!
#TheLinkinJKT
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I told you suju is different. My love for suju is different. My love for Hyukkie is different. My love for this fandom is different. Both Suju and Elfs are holding hands now. We're stronger when we're together, therefore we can stand strong too for Hyukkie and Honey Family
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Dan ini sangat2 kontraaaa sekali dengan yg terjadi di the link. FYI, GUE THE LINK DAY 1 ITU DI CAT 1C ALIAS TEMPAT KEJADIAN PERKARA. Gue liat sendiri bagaimana manusia2 itu MEMAKSAKAN DIRIIIII DORONG2 KE DEPAN. Gue di paling belakang btw, sibuk joget,
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To my moots who are checking up on me, I'M OKAY!!! Thank you so much for dm-ing and reaching out privately. I'm safe and sound, just a little pissed at these stupid fans
#TheLinkinJKT
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I remember the reason Hyukkie did MHH and vlog about his family too on Ildan Eunhyukee, was because he wanted to look back at all the fun memories they shared. You did right Hyukkie. You also did the right choice by going to Switzerland and France with your whole family.
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Shoutout to the first generation of Elfs, who sat outside of SBS Inkigayo in 2005 with their beautiful sapphire blue balloons. Thank you for supporting suju in their earliest days. It must be so heartwarming for those who were there, and now watching this documentary 😭😭
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Ya another thing to add. Thread ini dibuat solely krn gue gatel bgt melihat narasi2 gajelas. Yg bilang pilih kasih lah. Yang bersikap seolah2 fans ga salah lah. Perbandingan ini gue jabarksn utk menunjukkan kalo promoter & fans sama2 improve, maka hasilnya akan bagus! That's it
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REMEMBER THAT ONE ANTIS WHO MADE A PRESENTATION OF A GUIDE TO HATE SUJU??? THANK YOUUU!!! NOW WE GOT SUPER SHOW 9!!! KEEP GOING ANTIS HUHU THANK YOU I LOVE YOU, PLS KEEP HATING SUJU SO WE COULD GET MORE CONCERT HUHUUHHUHUH
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I have also noticed that Wookie was really holding on. He checked on Kyuhyun. Donghae also leaned to him. And now he carried the songs. Wookie, thank you.
In moment like this, beside leeteuk, i notice how ryeowook handle all the members part in songs, i admire him more 🥺
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PH Elfs are sooooo lucky to have such a kind-hearted promotor. I WISH INANG IS MY PROMOTOR. INANG WOULD YOU LIKE TO OPEN A NEW BRANCH IN INDONESIA HUHUHUHUU
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J-ELFS WHO HAVE BEEN LIVE TWEETING AND PROVIDING CLIPS, I OWE YOU ALL MY HAPPINESS!!! I WISH YOU ALL A HAPPY AND HEALTHY LIFE!!!
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I am so fed up looking at that very cocky fandom. You know what? Before your fave is "dominating" the billboard or grammys or wtv it is happening in the western, we had one direction. Before them we also had others like westlife, bsb, even the beatles. They were dominating the-
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Guys I just wanna say that I teared up a little during Mamacita at SMTown yesterday. My seat was literally at the top haha I was in Cat 6B. And let me tell you they were all singing to Mamacita. THEY SANG ALONG TO THE WORDS OF MAMACITA while shaking their own LS🥹🥹-
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😭😭😭😭😭 Weekly Idol staffs and crews, I just wanna say thank you so much for taking care our Hyukkie. Thank you for celebrating his bday in the cutest way possible for the past few years 😭😭😭
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While you guys are here, ini tweet gue menjelaskan apa yg terjadi di The Link Day 1. Bisa buka seluruh qrts & replies nya. Banyak kesaksian temen2 yg nonton disitu & mengutuk keras fans2 barbar
I'm at NCT 127 concert. Section 1C. I stood waaaay behind and I can tell you, NO ONE FROM THE BACK WAS PUSHING. I COULD EVEN DANCE AND ROLL MY HIPS. It's the people at the middle to the front!! They kept pushing!!
#TheLinkinJKT
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One more thing wkwkwkw biar makin jelas. For real tho, memang what happened at TL itu wake up call buat kita semua. Tp dimohon sekali utk jangan coba2 bikin narasi kalo the fans were all innocent di incident itu. Tolong sama2 akui banyak penonton yg messed up saat itu &
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@sjsofabulous
@cheesywon
I saw this too. His facial expression was not nice even for the slightest. Can somebody out there pls teach him how to have THE TINIEST BIT of manner?
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For those who are still thinking it's people from the back's pushing around, no. Please see my video here. It's sooooo chill we even have a proper distance one with another!
#TheLinkinJKT
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Also shotaro:
shotaro i dont want to scare u but theres an ugly bitch beside you…
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We love you, for a thousand years more Hyukkie
@AllRiseSilver
💙💙💙💙💙
cr. pics to the owners because I downloaded all pics from twt🙏
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Eunhyuk from Super Junior listens to Elfs comments and chose to be educated! Therefore he DELETED the post. So proud of him!!!
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Until the day your heart is less hurting. Until the day your smile comes back. Until the day you can face the world again.
My baby,
Until then, rest your heart Hyukkie.
Until then, I'll grief with you.
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HYUKJAE ASKED US TO STAND UP AND DANCE DURING EVERYDAY AND WE DID IT RIGHT AWAY BUT THE STAFFS TOLD US TO SIT DOWN RIGHT AWAY. WE'RE NOT EVEN RUSHING OR PUSHING. WE JUST STOOD IN OUR SIT WTF IS THIS HAH
@mecimapro
#SS9inJKT
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When I was bullied in junior high school, it took me 7++ years to be able to even just LOOK at my school building. That's how bullying affects you. Staying in a group for 17 yrs and getting a long with everyone like brothers IS CLEARLY NOT A FORM OF BULLYING.
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Turned out he did nod his head. Good, but still meh for me. That's not at least how I welcome a guest coming to my office
Ga maksud buat bela reza, tapi alangkah baiknya liat dari sisi lain dulu yaa elf, Dia bales kyu kok. 😊🙏
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Btw, ini yah tweet yg membuat kenapa gue jabarin panjang x lebar kenapa TL bs rusuh. Krn some people still believe that they're not at fault at all.
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sama2 komitmen utk menjadi penonton yg lebih baik. Mau penonton 127, dream, wayv, ataupun kalo misal all NCT kesini, jadilah semua penonton yg baik.
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@SJofficial
The promoter you chose did not release all tickets during ticketing day. They said it's all sold out. Turned out, they re-open the ticket sales OF THE MOST WANTED SEATS JUST 2 DAYS BEFORE THE CONCERT.
Disappointed is an understatement.
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- have an imagination or feel like you have a glimpse of what they really like in real life. No matter how long we have been a fan, they're all strangers to us. We could never know how their mind works. Also, fans and idols come from different backgrounds.
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ELF INDONESIA AT THE STUDIOOOO U GUYS ARE AWESOME!!! JUST NOW THE STAFFS ASK THE AUDIENCE TO KEEP QUIET FOR A BIT FOR MIC CHECK AND THEY IMMEDIATELY COMPLIED!!! AMAZING ELFS.
#KYUHYUN
IS DEFINITELY PROUD
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CAN Y'ALL IMAGINE RETURN OF SUPERMAN BUT IT'S HYUKJAE AND HIS KIDS AAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH I CAN ALREADY IMAGINE THE CUTENESS AND THE CHAOS AAAAAAA
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Weekly Idol team is really pampering hyukkie 🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺🥺 everybody babied him. Hyukkie looks like he's just finished celebrating his bday in McD and I LOVE IT. GIVE HYUKKIE MORE BALLOOOOONSSS
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Going to translate this: at first they were using their unit's outfit but then in the end they were all using the same group outfit. This means no matter how busy they are... they'll always come back to each other, because suju means FAMILY.
NOW I'M GONNA SOB
yang awalnya pakai outfit unit, trus dapat panggilan, muncul-muncul udah ganti outfit the crown. artinya apa? artinya mau di manapun mereka, ketika mendapat panggilan dari grup, mereka bakal kembali karena 'rumah' mereka di sana. i love you
@SJofficial
#SUPERJUNIOR
#SMTOWN
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Because if we dive in too deep, we get hurt deeply too. So in a way this psychologist ask us to make boundaries. Don't let stanning an artist affect you personally. By making boundaries, we protect our hearts too.
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Remember that Siwon vlog with D&E? Siwon & Donghae were talking about cars and Siwon was like "What does Hyukjae like?" and Donghae said HYUKJAE LIKES BANANA MILK HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHHAHA HE'S A KIDDO 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
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What is heechul even saying 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭😭 suju could just sit down and talk or play werewolf game or liar game for 10 hours and Elfs would still be happy 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭
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Hahahahah I lowkey think the reason Hyukkie was acting all funny, was to hide his tears
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You can see that we reaaaally enjoyed the show from the back here! My fancams were a mess because I was recording while dancing and jumping and just having a whole lot of fun! So, no pushing from 1C back section
#TheLinkinJKT
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On a serious note, fame really doesn't change hyukkie at all. How many years ago was this yet even until now he's still the same old cute boy who loves food and is just very much friendly, warm, and so humble. An actual sunshine 😭😭😭😭 hyukkie I love you
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Baiklah. Aku mute ya teman2 ini tweetnya krn ramai bgt 😭 terima kasih yg sudah mau mengerti the intention of this tweet. Terima kasih buat semua yg sm2 menyadari kalo kita sebagai fans punya kewajiban utk menjaga ketertiban. Kalo ada yg mau debat2 monggo boleh DM aja wkwk.
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@deasjoanna
Bener deh. Mentalitas penonton Day 1 terutama cat 1C (cat gue) itu beda banget sama TDS. Even beda banget sama yg The Link Day 2. Bayangin day 1 The Link itu belakang sampe kosonggg melompong bisa guling2, krn apa? Krn penontonnya semua majuuu ndlesek ke depan. Hadeh.
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Establishing ODE to become independent idols ❌
Establishing ODE to become independent wedding singers ✅✅✅✅✅✅
I LOVEEE D&E AND THEIR OPPA OPPA WEDDING SCHEDULE 😍😍 COMING UP NEXT: RYEOWOOK'S WEDDING 😍😍😍😍😍
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I AM CRYINGGG, Hyukjae posted a picture of his mom!! Mama Lee, thank you so much for giving birth to the most beautiful son, who has a beautiful heart too. Stay healthy, mama Lee! We love you dearly!
#4
랑에_4랑을더한_은혁이생일
#BEwithEunhyuk
@AllRiseSilver
#EUNHYUK
#은혁
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Plot twist, even without music show, D&E's album is going to SUCCEED!!!!
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DITEGUR JENO KAN????? SOALNYA RUSUH BANGET ITU GILA KAYA ZOMBIE. TOLONG KONTROL DIRIIII WOY
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THE FACT THAT YESUNG USED TOEY'S PIC MEANS I WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG. THE SUJUS IS ONE OF US HERE!!!! REVEAL YOURSELFFFRR WHICH ONE OF YOU GUYS IS YESUNGGGGG
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And if it's reversed, we'd get a big amount of hate.
@weverseofficial
do your fucking job right
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OUR RYEOWOOK IS GETTING MARRIED BY THE END OF MAY! CONGRATULATIONS WOOKIE AND ARY!
Omg that means when Wookie comes to Indonesia this September, HE'S A MARRIED MAN ALREADY AAHHH INA ELFs CAN WE DO A PROJECT FOR THIS PLS???? CONGRATULATING WOOKIE??
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KRY UNIT COMING TO INDO. D&E UNIT COMING TO INDO 😭😭😭😭😭 CAN SUJU PLS JUST COME AS A WHOLE I'M STRESSED OUT. MY MONEY IS FLYING AGAIN 😭😭😭😭😭😭
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I am sooo touched when they were looking for Yuqi and they thought Yuqi was gone but Yuqi was waving so hardddd to be noticed 😭😭😭😭😭 CUTEST
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MAMACITA FROM OUTSIDE OF GBK STADIUM. THIS IS WHYY I TEARED UP DURING MAMACITA BCS EVERYONE WAS SINGING ALONG SO LOUDLY 😭😭😭
Dikirimin vid dari temen yang nonton dari luar, Fanchant Mamacita ternyata menggelar kaya gini dari luar. Satu GBK "AYAYAYAYA" kompakan. Mamacita loh ini, yang ga dibawain sesering sorry sorry, mina, misim
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At the end of the day, Elfs are still the winner. To have a fandom lasts even for 17 years. To have the sujus still active and relevant in the Sokor Entertainment Industry. To have the 9th world tour. To release more albums. To have more shows. For me, we are still the winner
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K-fans most likely could relate with the idol's mindset or way of thinking or anything. While us, intl fan, find it maybe a little weird or even strange. And I feel like this psychologist was right.
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Are you people really complaining about HJ bubble?? Really???? He sends regular Monday messages. He communicates with us with basically EVERYTHING. Food. Movie. Joking with us. Sending pictures. Now he went on vacation and y'all went "he only sees us as a job" DUH???
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Thank you Heechul. Thank you Kangin. Thank you Sungmin. I know the 3 of you will be there with Hyukkie. Thank you Heechul for making sure that Hyukkie is sleeping well. Thank you. 😭😭😭thank you for taking care of Hyukkie 😭😭😭😭😭
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I'M STILL CRYINGGGGG 😭😭😭😭😭😭 THE SUJUS WILL HAVE A CONCERT IN JAKARTA ON MY BIRTHDAY WAIT I'M STILL CRYING
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Aku terbuka utk debat yg sehat & stay on the topic. Bukan debat yg sifatnya mau nyerang personal wkwkwkw. Ciaooo!
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Ahhhh 🥺🥺🥺 the day that Hyukkie gets married will be the happiest and most heart-warming moment, not just for him and his family, but also to the people who have supported him up until this day. I think I'm going to shed tears OF HAPPINESS!! Go get your happiness, Hyukkie🤍🤍
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I'M SITTING LITERALLY NEXT TO THE STAGE I CAN JUMP RIGHT AT THEMMMM
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LET ME SAY THING ONCE AND FOR ALL. YOU WANNA CALL OUT SM MISTREATMENT THEN DO IT. WE ALL KNOW HOW SHITTY AND AWFUL SM IS. BUT DO NOT BRING SUPER JUNIOR IN THIS SHIT. WHAT DOES SUJU HAVE TO DO WITH THIS? U ALL LOVE SUJU THAT MUCH U HAVE TO BRING THEM IN EVERY CONVOS. OBSESSED MFS
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What is this??? All artists should have AT LEAST the same amount of performance time. This is not fair also to the other artists and fans of other artists. Not fair as well for suju bcs it's like KAMP putting the pressure on suju (although suju is very much capable).
Updated set times for Day 1 of
#KAMPLA2022
are here! 💥 M&G Artists: P1Harmony & Super Junior.
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Again full context of shotaro at suju fan meeting in Japan. Hmm the kid looks happy tho ....then guess who's the ugly bitch? You. Because you saw your reflection on your screen 🤷♂️
shotaro i dont want to scare u but theres an ugly bitch beside you…
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It will also be easier to us to see what's good for us and what's not. It will also be easier for us to accept thing. To accept that people have their own minuses and pluses.
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USA ELFs I KNOW YOU GUYS WILL CHEER THE LOUDEST FOR SUJU!!! LET'S DO IT!!!!!!
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I GOT THE TIXXX FOR YESOLO UNFADING SENSE IN JAKARTA YAAAAYYY!!! YESUNG SEE YOUU!! AND ALSO JUST TO LET YOU GUYS KNOW THAT THE SAPPHIRE BLUE SECTION WAS FULL BOOKED IN 1 MINUTEEEEE SINCE TIX PURCHASE IS OPENEDDDD. SO EXCITED FOR YESUNGG
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FIRST OF ALL. Most jewels call HJ a bunny, for FUN. Because sometimes he tends to act cute. He even dressed up as a bunny in his vlog. It's a fun character that we associate with him AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHO HE'S WITH. HE CAN BE WITH THE PRESIDENT AND WE CAN STILL REFER-
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And if their povs or mindset are not align with us, it will be easier for us to accept thing and decide what's good for us. To keep stanning, or keep being a casual listener, or to leave. I felt like this psychologist was really true.
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Opini valid harusnya datang dari gue yg fans hardcore keduanya. Kalo kita ngomongin soal lagu yang mudah diterima di masyarakat luas, then it's 1D (apalagi lagu2nya in English). Tapi kalo segi kualitas vocal, definitely suju kemana2. Suju dance sambil lari2 pun suaranya stabil.
@alztermaid
@infoXwor_
Ini boyband level top kah ? Coba mbaknya nonton live one direction bakal kerasa jauh bedanya
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LOOK AT THIS BONAMANA FANCAM DURING SMTOWN JAKARTAAA!!! LOOK AT THOSE LIGHTSTICKS MOVING IN SYNC!!!
Credit on video!!
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AND IT'S ABOUT TO GET WORSE FOR YOU HAHAHAHAHAHA THANK YOU FOR ACTIVATING THE CURSE. WE'VE BEEN WAITING FOR SO LONG!!!
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THE INDONESIA ARENA IS ALSO FINISHED ALREADY! LOCATED IN THE GBK STADIUM AREA. MANIFESTING SS10 AND SMTOWN IN THIS VENUE
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THIS FEUD wouldn't happen in the first place if that Dayoung stan is not being an asshole by making a clip of a varshow as her "hating on sd agenda". Therefore, do not fucking preach about "y'all hating on dayoung blabla" get a fucking mirror and look at yourself.
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I'm gonna say this once and for all. You think as fans you really know the relationship between members? Don't forget HYUKJAE WAS THE ONE HOLDING KYUHYUN'S HANDS PRAYING WITH HIM WHEN THE ACCIDENT HAPPENED BACK THEN. The members really care for one another? Why would you think-
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i don't know what happen with all these fuss but for me personally, when you win a fancall just do whatever that both makes you happy and makes the members happy and comfotable too. i don't think stan twitter has the rights to say anything, except when the fan has gone too far
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Wowww, erasing suju who's placed literally in between shinee and twice? A hater i see then. But here PRESENTING THE KING OF HALLYU WAVE : SUPER JUNIOR
List of all K-Pop acts who are featured on the list of 'Honorific nicknames in popular music' by Wikipedia. The artist must be recognised worldwide by the industry in order for their name to be listed.
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Ohhh this is a golden child member? Isn't golden child the group that always has so much fun at WI? They were always having fun and joking around with the MCs it's so cuteeee
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Well the last time I checked, Miss Universe 2015 is a fan of suju. So 🤷. And I know those emojis below are meant to shame us for being "old" or whatsoever. But I prefer to say it as MATURE & ESTABLISHED. Bcs most of us MAKE our own money & have an established career out there.
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I think those who can endure this type of pressure are only real Elfs who live and breathe the sujus. Yuqi is one of us. Changmin is our president. But then I gotta give props to Yuqi. A gg member who is always vocal about how suju inspires her. LONG LIVE YUQI!!
from alexa girl deleting her tiktok with suju, to bm deleting his suju tweet, all these only make me realise that suju carry the strongest type of resilience towards what's thrown at them. they know, and they still keep on going no matter what
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Remember in KB Yesung picked Hyukjae as his 2nd fave and everyone was like 😲😲😲 I wasn't at all surprised bcs YEHYUK HAS ALWAYS BEEN CLOSE 🥺🥺🥺 it's just their love language on cam is physical attack + teasing 🤣🤣🤣 but they really share a lot in common 🥹🥹
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I personally would like to say thank you everyone who has been so consistent in showing their support for 606 album. With the release of the official lyrics video and performance video, I somehow feel like this is because D&E see there are still many people who support this-
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To me, Hyukjae is such a role model of how hard work will never betray you. And when you've succeeded, stay humble. Stay real. Don't be overwhelm with money and fame. That's how Hyukjae can be where he is right now. And also, take care of your parents wholeheartedly.
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We all know Hyukjae's struggle when he was still a trainee. We know his family situation. We know how much Hyukjae wanted to help his family. He wanted to ease their burdern. Seeing how he takes care of his family now with everything he has and from his hard work, makes me 😭😭😭
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-chart back then. What I'd like to imply is THERE IS ALWAYS AN ERA. Every band or boy bands or girl bands has their own era. STOP MAKING COMPARISONS AND STOP SAYING WHO PAVED THE FUCKING WAY BLAH BLAH BLAH
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That's just my two-cents tho hehe. And this is what I've been doing too. Sure I'll be sad over some things that don't meet my expectations. But it's easier for me to separate my thoughts, what's good for me, and decide what's my next action will be.
NOW BACK TO HYUKKIE'S BDAY
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A suju hater disguising as a fan of JUST a certain member is the worst kind of ant1s. Do not EVER label something "bully1ng" if you have NEVER experienced it. And STOP VICTIMIZING your fave over scenarios you made inside your head. U KNOW NOTHING. U R JUST FANS BEGIND A FAN ACC
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SS9 INA General Sales ticketing is tomorrooooow uhuhuhu wish me luck!!! I took a day off from work to stay focus on the ticketing hahahah I wouldn't be able to compose myself if I'm still at work hahaha
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Bringing this back again. Protecting Hyukkie from antis and people who claimed to be fans but actually are just a bunch of destroyers.
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I'm honestly proud to see how Elfs are responding to the latest issue. We are so good at pointing out the real issue. We always give a CLEAR & ON-POINT argument to the point that these antis have no comeback argument so they just make up everything.
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