Vegito
@VegitoWrath
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As a dog returns to its vomit, so a fool repeats his folly.
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Isaiah 41:25’s prophecy about prophet Muhammad SAW
🧵:
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Western academics like Prof. Nicolai Sinai are starting to realize that Qur'ānic predictions of future events (or prophecies we might say) are simply the most plausible readings of the text.
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The Torah speaks so little of the afterlife. The Gospels speak so little about God and His attributes. The Qur’an talks about both to the utmost of detail. God has truly perfected our religion.
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Muslim hostility towards Paul is no modern innovation.
8th century Ibāḍī theologian ʿAbd Allāh al-Fazārī writes:
“Every nation after its prophet has a Sāmirī to misguide it and a Paul to deceive it like the Sāmirī of the Jews and the Paul of the Christians, Allāh curse them.”
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Is Jesus divine according to the Qur’an because he’s called Allāh’s Word and Spirit?
Aḥmad b. Ḥanbal responds 🧵:
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“If Ahmad bin Hanbal looked at a Christian, he would close his eyes, so he was asked about that, and he said: ‘I am not able to look at someone who slandered God and lied about him.’ ”
Ṭabaqāt al-Ḥanābilah 1/136
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Al-Ghazali: “The people’s need for prophets is like their need for physicians, but the truthfulness of a physician is known by experience, and the truthfulness of the Prophet is known by miracle.”
Iḥyā′ ‘Ulūm al-Dīn 1/357
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Is the Qur’an word for word the speech of God or is it just “inspired” like the Bible?
🧵:
It's interesting that in traditional Islamic theology the Quran is seen as the speech of God (9:6), yet it talks of itself as being the "speech/saying of a noble messenger" in places like 69:40 (preceded by oaths!) and 81:19 which (to me) indicate that there's some nuance.
🧵 👇
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Abū l-Baqāʾ al-Jaʿfarī:
“if a Jew challenges the verse of the splitting of the moon, we say to him: ‘What is your evidence for the splitting of the sea for Moses?’
Or if a Christian doubts it, we say to him: ‘What is your argument for the rupture of the veil of the temple at
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Greek philosopher Porphyry of Tyre (c. 234 – c. 305 AD) denies the preservation of the Torah and the concept of a divine, crucified Messiah among the Jews.
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Jews and Christians will accept people like Ezekiel, Hosea, Malachi, Haggai, Nahum, Miriam and Hannah as prophets but won’t accept Muhammad as a prophet even though they don’t have any miracles and our prophet does.
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[Thread] If Jesus was crucified, Christianity is false. If Jesus wasn’t crucified, Christianity is false.
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Recent scholarship shows that Mecca enjoyed some significance in the minds of pre-Islamic Christians.
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Christopher R. North in his commentary on Isaiah mentions that a lot of commentators believe that the “justice” (mišpāt) which will be brought forth by the servant of Isaiah 42 to the Gentiles is better explained as something similar to the “Arab Dîn” (i.e Islam)
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Furthermore, our mighty prophet is the only lawgiver who fought the nations and put them in their place in the name of God. So much so that even 7th century Christian scholars had no choice but to admit that Muslims were aided by divine support.
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Ibn Juzayy in his tafsir: “It appears to me that this threat was carried out on him on the day of Badr, when he was killed and was taken by his forehead and dragged to the well.”
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@Farid_0v
@mohammed_hijab
I hope all sides keep this back & forth in DMs instead of publicly. I don’t see any good in this.
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It says that the tribes of the desert will follow him and his rulership will extend to the ends of the earth.
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God continues to describe the Servant and says:
“𝘆𝗶𝗾𝗿ā ḇ𝗶š𝗺î” the most literal translation being: “He will read in my name.”
The very first words revealed in the Qur’an were:
“𝗶𝗾’𝗿𝗮 𝗯𝗶-𝗶𝘀’𝗺𝗶 rabbika” meaning: “Read in the name of your Lord.”
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Harun Al-Rashid in his letter to Constantine VI makes the brilliant argument that this prophecy can only apply to our holy prophet since he is the only prophet who brought a law after Moses. Jesus on the other hand followed the Mosaic law.
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Some early Mu'tazili Muslim theologians memorized the Torah, Gospels, and Psalms for apologetical purposes.
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Sometimes we see this tactic done by Christians online. The author of the Quran understands human psychology pretty well I must say.
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In Surah 96:15 (Al-‘Alaq) which is the very first Surah by order of revelation, God promised Abu Jahl that if he kept insisting upon disbelief, that He would “drag him by the forehead.”
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So either say God is one Person and agree with us, or say Christ was two or more Persons and fall into heresy. No third option.
Source: al-Jawāb al-Ṣaḥīḥ 3/25.
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Christians: “Psalm 72 is about Jesus Christ”
Ibn Taymiyyah deals with this objection quite well. Jesus is not continuously prayed FOR. Instead, Christians pray TO him because they believe in his deity.
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It further says that people will pray FOR him and they will bless him continually ALL DAY LONG. I don’t think this description applies to ANYONE except Muhammad since we uniquely pray for him in all of our daily prayers and even upon mentioning his name.
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“What explains their contradiction is that they say Christ - who is divinity and humanity - is one Person and one Hypostasis, while saying that they (divinity and humanity) are two essences with two natures and two wills, so they affirm for two essences one Hypostasis, and say:
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According to the Greek, Latin, and Syriac versions of Psalm 9:20, David asks God to judge the nations by sending a lawgiver to them:
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[thread] Is the Holy Spirit the Paraclete? I will let the Bible answer that question for you.
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Big difference between:
Matthew 27:46: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?”
Surah 93:3: “your Lord has not forsaken you [Prophet], nor does He hate you.”
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To summarize the argument:
It is inconsistent to believe that Christ was only one Person despite consisting of two essences, two natures and two wills and then turn around and claim that God, who only consists of one essence, one nature and one will is three Persons.
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@Bi1alSyed
@mohammed_hijab
@LoganPaul
@ING
Nah that’s pretty desperate, not a good look. He already said that he’s gonna have him on dude.
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@mohammed_hijab
@CosmicSkeptic
It was a one sided debate in favor of the Islamic side. Hamza Tzortzis vs Lawrence Krauss and this debate are a huge slap in the face of Atheism. I’m looking forward to more.
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I also don’t see how his enemies were afraid of him. Christians claim that Satan tempted him for 40 days and his enemies spat on him, put thorns on his head, and crucified him.
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the crucifixion of the look alike that you associated with Allāh in Lordship?’
If they say: ‘correct transmission and explicit report.’
We say: ‘Who made the worshipers of crosses and calves more deserving of acceptance than the reports of just monotheists?!’”
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The Bible explicitly says that Solomon committed shirk by worshiping pagan gods towards the end of his life and his kingdom was torn apart after his death so he's definitely not the person who will be perpetually praised, blessed and feared as per this Psalm.
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Summary:
1) A Gentile.
2) Reads in the name of his Lord.
3) Conquers Rulers.
4) Comes for the Gentiles.
5) A Muslim.
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Even though the will of the three Hypostases according to them is one, but for humanity and divinity they affirm for them two wills and two natures, but despite this they’re still one Person and one Hypostasis according to them, and this leads to utter contradiction.”
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It specifically used the title “messenger” because the function of a messenger in the Qur’an is only “البلاغ” or to merely “deliver the message” as Surah 5:99 makes clear.
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Lastly, the very next chapter (Isaiah 42) calls the Servant: “Muslim” and a light for the “Gentiles.”
This is relevant because all Church Fathers and many Jewish commentators concede that Isaiah 41 & 42 speak of the very same Servant.
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“Takhjīl man ḥarrafa al-Tawrāh wa-l-Injīl” (The shaming of those who have altered the Torah and the Gospel) p.g 733.
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The Servant is given the ability to destroy Rulers very easily.
Our prophet SAW was able to do this.
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He is one Person.
Then they say: the Lord of the worlds is one God and one essence, and He is three Hypostases,
so they affirm for the one essence three Hypostases, and for the two united Essences one Hypostasis.
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God summons this Servant from the north.
Eusebius of Caesarea (d. 339 AD) proves that “north” in the Bible signifies the Gentiles.
Thus, it should be rendered: “I have stirred up one out of the Gentiles” and our prophet SAW was a Gentile.
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@alainval224
In all my years of reading polemics against Islam written by non-Muslims, including orientalists, I have not seen a single objection that wasn’t already addressed by our ʿUlamāʾ either directly or indirectly.
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Christian plays a “guessing game” with the Bible after admitting he doesn’t know who wrote the book of Hebrews 👇🏻
@amateurexegete
That the technical answer, but if we’re playing a guessing game - like in your QT, I prefer Apollos
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Question: Did Jesus ever call himself “Son of God”?
Answer: No.
(Muslim Exegesis of the Bible in Medieval Cairo Najm al-Dīn al-Ṭūfī’s (d. 716/1316) Commentary on the Christian Scriptures)
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“The Old Testament is so violent, mean, and cruel”
The Old Testament:
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“It is the saying of a noble messenger” should thus be understood to mean “It is communicated by a noble messenger” or “it is a message brought by a noble messenger” and should not be understood as “it is the initiation of a noble messenger.”
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Christian apologist admits most Christians are heretics who don’t know the Trinity!
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Jesus: “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.” (John 5:31).
Allāh: “Say, ‘What thing is greatest as testimony?’ Say, ‘God is Witness between you and me.’” (Surah 6:19).
#WeAreNotTheSame
.
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I took all of my arguments from Majmoo' al-Fatawa volume 12 p.g 265-266.
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In addition, If it was appropriate to say that the Qur’an is the speech of prophet Muhammad, why was the disbeliever quoted in Surah 74:25 who said: “this is not but the word of a human being” judged to Hell for what he said?
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It is said in reply to him: this would still be half of what the disbeliever in 74:25 said.
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81:19 & 69:40 say that the Qur’an: “is the saying of a noble messenger.” 81:19 referring to angel Gabriel and 69:40 referring to prophet Muhammad, so some have taken this to mean that it is not word for word the speech of God.
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Christians deny the claim that the Son suffered death on the cross through his divine nature. Rather, they say the Son suffered pain and death through his human nature. But since Christ is only one person, they can practically say “God died.”
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@FullmetalTheist
Yeah. I love how they always give a ton of references. They don’t just give their own opinions.
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However, notice how the Qur’an was careful not to say “It is the saying of a noble angel” and neither did it say “It is the saying of a noble prophet.”
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Sources: Aḥmad b. Ḥanbal’s “al-Radd ʿalā al-Zanādiqa wa-l-Jahmiyya.”
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Question: “How does Cyrus contradict 2)?”
Answer: Though it is true he acknowledged God in Ezra 1:2 and 2 Chronicles 36:23, he didn’t read in His name (literal translation) or pray in His name (NET) and he was a polytheist, so it’s harder to make him fit.
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@ApostateRidvan
@mohammed_hijab
If you’re not ready for an informal back and forth you’re definitely not gonna be ready for a formal debate.
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The Quran gives many arguments for God’s existence, the Bible doesn’t.
This is not to say it’s a defect for the Bible not to do that or even that giving arguments for His existence is necessary. Because it’s not. The point is just to appreciate the extra stuff we’ve been given.
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Question: “Why couldn’t this be Jesus.”
Answer: Contradicts 1), hadn’t fulfilled 3) and contradicts 4).
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He said: ‘Allāh’s saying:
(the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was nothing more than a messenger of God, His word, directed to Mary) [4:171] and Jesus is created.’
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@XGONDALX
@mohammed_hijab
@abdullahadam
I agree that his approach isn’t the best but how dare you insult someone whom he loves more than his parents and then turn around and cry about him possibly insulting your wife? Inconsistent.
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If our opponent retorts by saying: “he was judged to Hell because he made all of the Qur’an the word of a human being while I’m only saying it’s the wording of a human being but the meaning is still from God.”
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Question: “Why can’t Jesus fulfill 3) in his second coming?”
Answer: He theoretically could but it is absurd to wait for an already fulfilled prophecy to be fulfilled in someone else.
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@exMoslemsInc
The hearts of the Muslims are like the Sun and their faces are like the moon which reflects that light. The hearts of the Murtads are like a Star that turned into a black hole and thus their faces reflect that emptiness.
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@Hasan22821492
@CopticBoi
@luisdizon
1/8 Surah 29:48 states that prophet Muhammad wasn’t able to read or write, and as you know, the Qur’an is the earliest source of Islamic history.
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The Jahmī then claimed something else, so he said: ‘I find a verse in the book of Allāh which indicates that the Qur’an is created.’
So we said: ‘Which verse?’
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However, as Ibn Taymiyyah exquisitely points out, whatever the body suffers, the soul suffers as well.
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Question: “Why couldn’t this be Cyrus.”
Answer: He contradicts 2), 4) and 5).
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@zachpaul97
@Florida_Man1
@TeamKhabib
He is amazing at wrestling, but from amazing to Khabib level wrestling is a massive gap.
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So we said: ‘Allāh has prevented you from understanding the Qur’an. Jesus is described with words that the Qur’an cannot be described with, because Jesus is called a newborn, a child, a boy, and a young man. He eats and drinks, and he is addressed by commands and prohibitions and
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@AlFinlandi
There are so many ways of reconciling both Hadiths, but you already knew that and you probably don’t care.
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Question: “Why couldn’t the conquering Rulers part be interpreted metaphorically?”
Answer: It could but then every prophecy can be interpreted metaphorically and anyone can claim its fulfillment in himself. We don’t want that.
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So Jesus was with Kun, Jesus is not the Kun, but instead, with the Kun he was. So the Kun from Allāh is a speech, and Kun is not created.
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The Christians and the Jahmiyya lied about Allāh the Almighty on the matter of Jesus. This is because the Jahmiyya said: ‘Jesus is the Spirit of God and His Word, except that His Word is created.’
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@Skipper4231
@meow_abu
@RioPedro2
@halalhomer_
@ApostateRidvan
@ApostateRidvan
has been humiliated (4)
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“Hold on Vegito, by that logic, wouldn’t this mean that Jesus underwent suffering & death in his divine nature and not just in his human nature? I thought God can’t die.” Exactly right sir! Either deny his deity or his crucifixion or appeal to mystery. No fourth option.
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But the meaning of Allāh the Almighty’s saying: (the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was nothing more than a messenger of God, His word, directed to Mary) [4:171] is that the word he directed to Mary is Kun (Be!).
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@quranandbibleb1
I’m not sure if even want to dignify his thread with a response but here’s the funny thing. His own Church Father St Augustine of Hippo agrees with the translation I used in my thread 💀
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And the Christians said: ‘Jesus is the Spirit of Allāh from the essence of Allāh, and the Word of Allāh from the essence of Allāh, similar to how it is said that this cloth is from this garment.’
And we said: ‘Jesus was through the Word. Jesus himself is not the Word;
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