Tim O'Neill
@TimONeill007
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History writer, medievalist, blogger, atheist, sceptic and expatriate Tasmanian.
Sydney, New South Wales
Joined May 2012
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Pinned Tweet
Just uploaded to the History for Atheists video channel, my interview with
@DrKippDavis
on Second Temple Jewish apocalypticism as a context for the historical Jesus. Enjoy.
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So if I’ve got you straight, you’re illustrating this “dark age” with a piece of superb late medieval art by a Flemish master depicting a second century Christian saint being brutally executed by pagan Romans? 🤔 Are you sure you know … anything about this “history” stuff?
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Wow. I've read some misinformation and plenty of racist crap on this site since Space Karen took over, but the thread below is next level garbage. This "Yevarժiaղ" person (
@haravayin_hogh
) describes themselves as "Ismaili Crypto-Zoroastrian". Umm, okay.
Short thread on life of the Tasmanian Aborigines prior to European arrival - the most isolated & primitive human society that has ever existed.
Excerpts from Edgerton's "Sick Societies".
Photos from my own last holiday there.🧵
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Weird right wing grifter: “Feudalism was great!”
Various random non-historians: “No, it was a terrible system!”
Actual medieval historians: “Ummm, the ‘feudalism’ of your high school textbooks was based on simplistic nineteenth century constructs and never actually existed.”
It was literally one of the worst possible systems imaginable.
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Sigh, here we go again ...
(i) No, Hypatia was not "the first woman in history to make contributions in her fields". Centuries before she was born we have references to female scholars like Aspasia, Diotima, Arete, Hipparchia and Pamphile. Closer to her time we have ...
In March 415 AD the superstitious and ignorant christian mob stripped Hypatia naked and murdered her using ostraka, (translated as "roof tiles" or "oyster shells") and flayed her skin off her body. Damascius adds that they cut out her eyeballs and, 1/2
#TheChristianDarkAges
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@iamAtheistGirl
So if I’ve got you straight, you’re illustrating this “dark age” with a piece of superb late medieval art by a Flemish master depicting a second century Christian saint being brutally executed by pagan Romans? 🤔 Are you sure you know … anything about this “history” stuff?
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In a classic case of "beware the man with just one book", this person has taken a dubious polemical work by one non-specialist and a brief holiday in Tasmania and then written a thread detailing how vile and primitive Aboriginal Tasmanians were pre-colonisation. And hoo boy, ...
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Neil DeGrasse Tyson's nonsense about how Al-Ghazali ended the Islamic Golden Age is now doing the rounds on TikTok and YouTube shorts. So here is why he's wrong and details on the origin of this persistent historical myth.
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The annual "Christmas **IS** pagan!!" festival has kicked off a little later this year, but it seems it's now arrived with full force. This is where people who haven't studied this subject at all, but can Google some crappy online pop history articles, get very cross with ...
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Did the Medieval Church regard eating breakfast as "gluttony"? No. A thread.
Just when you think you've seen all the strange myths about the Middle Ages, a new one appears. The Twitter account of the BBC panel show QI posted the following image yesterday, declaring "In the ...
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Here is everything I hate about current Twitter in one vile tweet: bad history, antisemitism, Christian nationalism, racist conspiracy theory and massive stupidity, all in one toxic cluster of festering crap. 🤬
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... the myths around Hypatia and what actual historians say about her and her murder. Once again, DON'T GET YOUR HISTORY FROM DUMB MEMES!
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We're still a couple of weeks away from Easter, but the crappy "aCksHuLLy, eAsTer iz pAgan!" memes have begun already. No, actually, it isn't.
The date of Easter is not based on any pagan festival and there is no such festival that fell on the *very* specific date in ...
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... what a wild read it is. This Yevarժiaղ person seems to depend entirely on one book - Robert Edgerton, *Sick Societies: Challenging the Myth of Primitive Harmony* (1992). Edgerton was an anthropologist at the University of California and his book worked to counter ...
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Okay, so this incredibly stupid meme is being circulated yet again. This
@mzgreen66
person has posted it as though it's somehow credible information and has received 177+ likes and had it reposted 116 times. Despite the fact it's complete crap. Let's count the ways.
...
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... and cherry-picked information. His section on the Tasmanian Aborigines is marked by some use of highly outdated and often dubious or flat out erroneous information, making him a deeply unreliable guide who seems to have worked from a very small number of old works. Yet ...
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... the romanticisation of primitive cultures, arguing they were not always the happy and environmentally sustainable utopias presented by some anthropologists (especially the followers of Margaret Mead). Unfortunately, to do this, Edgerton indulges in some selective evidence ...
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Here we go again. It seems Valentine's Day is going to join Christmas, Easter and Halloween in the yearly online history-debunking ritual of "no, it doesn't have a pagan origin". (a LONG thread, Part One):
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... Pandrosion in Alexandria and Sosipatra in Pergamon. She was also not the first female writer on mathematics.
(ii) There was no "Platonist School" for her to be head of. Like all philosophers in her time, she had her own group of followers and pupils and so she was head ...
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... this one unreliable work by someone who is not a specialist scholar in the Aboriginal Tasmanians is the only book this Yevarժiaղ person refers to. Alarm bells should now be ringing loudly.
According to Yevarժiaղ and his one book, the diet of the early Tasmanians was ...
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It’s beginning to look a lot like … time to post this again.
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🧵People sometimes ask why I feel the need to educate my fellow unbelievers on history. Here's a small but amusing example. This person
@Key3Skeleton
posts gotcha memes about atheism and religion of the edgy-teenage-apostate variety. So a little while ago they posted this:
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... She taught an Iamblichan form of Neoplatonism, which saw mathematics and astronomy, along with divination and mystical practices, as ways to commune with the cosmic divine. She was not doing "science" in any modern sense and what math and geometric astronomy she did was for..
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Let's start with the "near starvation" claim. Anyone who has even been to Tasmania (I lived there for 18 years) knows it has abundant wildlife. Vistors comment on the vast amounts of roadkill, indicating the huge numbers of kangaroos, wallabies, pademelons and other ...
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... Christianity or because she was learned or because she was a pagan. She was caught in the crossfire of one of Alexandria's violent political disputes. Two factions were clashing over an issue of hierarchy of authority and she was killed in revenge for the death of one of ...
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... the opposing faction. This was street politics in late Roman Alexandria.
(v) And no, he death did not mark "the end of Alexandria as a centre of learning." There were plenty of famed scholars active there over the following 200 years, including Hierocles, Asclepius of ...
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... esoteric purposes that any modern person would find weird and baffling.
(iv) The mob that killed her was made up of Christians, but that's simply because *most* people in Alexandria were Christians by 415 AD. They didn't kill her *because* of anything to do with ...
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... one book, Yevarժiaղ paints a picture of primitive savages who oppressed their women, had almost no technology and lived in misery and near starvation on a cold windswept island with no fire.
Except ... this is a load of complete crap. ...
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... of this select salon, which was one of a number of such groups in the city. And she was a Neoplatonist - a development out of Plato's thought that was distinctly mystical in nature.
(iii) So no, she didn't teach "maths, philosophy and scientific aspects of Neoplatonism". ...
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... philosopher in the city. Another Neoplatonist,Aedisia, taught in the city a few year later, untroubled by any Christian mobs. The idea that her political assassination caused any "Christian dark ages" is a total fiction. A decline in learning was seen from the fifth ...
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@lyssasphere
You deliberately and knowingly cut off the rest of what that piece says. If you have to deceive people to make your point, perhaps you need to rethink your point. Lying is not a good look.
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... modern research shows how they shaped the landscape with fire to create open and carefully designed hunting grounds that attracted game and moved them into areas where they could be speared easily. Seafood was even more abundant and still is - Tasmanian oysters, abalone ...
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... Tralles, Olympiodorus the Younger, Ammonius Hermiae and Hermias and, later, John Philoponus. Alexandria only declined as a centre of learning after the Muslim conquest in 639, when Cairo became the new administative capital. She was not even the last pagan, female ...
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... over a pademelon. And all accounts are that the Aboriginal Tasmanians could move with complete silence in the bush and throw their spears with deadly accuracy up to 100 metres. Extensive early European accounts detail that they were effective hunters and ....
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... "adequate" most of the year and in winter they were "often brought to brink of starvation", so they spent "a quarter of the year starving" and were reduced to "eating kangroo skins". Despite this, the Tasmanians were so stupid they didn't eat the abundant scale fish in the...
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marsupials. Possums and other smaller animals are also abundant. Tasmanian Aboriginal people ate all of these animals. Even someone who is not a skilled hunter can catch these creatures - the winner of the inaugrual *Alone Australia* (2023) won because she literally tripped ...
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... and crayfish are prized delicacies to this day and colonial accounts detail how they were all enjoyed in huge quantities by the Tasmanian Aborigines. Huge middens of seafood remains and bones many metres high dot the coastline of Tasmania where Aboriginal bands camped over...
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... waters around the island. Allegedly they "lost the ability to make floating vessels of any kind", wore no clothes other than some skins and animal fat, "had no initiation rites, & only the barest ideas of religion" and "even lost the ability to make fire". So, using his ...
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... "roving parties" of troops and armed convicts and could not hunt or even build fires. To take this *one* reference as evidence that traditional pre-colonial Tasmanians spent a quarter of the year starving is completely absurd. All other evidence indicates that traditional ...
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... century to around the ninth, but that was in *western* Europe, due to the collapse of the Western Roman Empire. Hypatia lived in the Eastern Empire, which did not collapse and which saw philosophy and proto-science studied as normal.
See below for my detailed article on ...
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... But that source is one "Mr Brodribb" who took part in military operations against the Tasmanian Aboriginals during the "Black War" of 1825-32 and his use of the present tense indicates this refers to Aborigines in that time - a period when warbands were on the run from ...
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... canoes, with several colonial depictions of them. Modern archaeologists have also made and tested reconstructions of them.
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... millennia of this abundance. Even Edgerton has to admit they ate "shellfish (mostly mussels, oysters, whelk, and abalone), seals, marsupials (possums, wallabies, and kangaroos), and birds and their eggs, as well as various vegetables. In all, they ate sixty species of ...
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... animals and seventy species of vegetables." Hardly a description of people who spent a quarter of the year starving. That claim is based on one reference in Edgerton to them being "reduced to eating kangaroo skins" in winter. Presumably these would have to be skins from ...
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... by anyone who wants an actual, scholarly understanding of these remarkable, resourceful and tough people and the tragic history of how their culture was almost completely wiped out by colonists in a stark case of actual genocide.
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... published in 1890 (Edgerton refers to the 1899 second edition) and was the very first semi-anthropological account of the Tasmanians. So, not exactly cutting edge research. Roth, in turn, cites one source to say "they have been known in winter time to eat kangaroo skins". ...
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... animals hunted in other seasons, otherwise you'd have to wonder why they ate the skins and not ... the kangaroos they had been attached to. 😉 Except Edgerton gives one source for this claim of starvation in winter - Henry Ling Roth, *The Aborigines of Tasmania*. This was ...
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... who observed them. But the image painted by
Yevarժiaղ and his one badly researched book is absurd racist nonsense.
Current work by Nicholas Clements, Henry Reynolds, newer work by Lyndall Ryan and recent research on hunting and food sources by Bill Gammage should be read ...
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... fire at all and these sticks, lit from wildfires, were their only fire source. This is contradicted by a mass of evidence. They could and did make fire, but firesticks were an easier source, not their only one.
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... initiated men was often depicted and commented on by colonists. Most knowledge of Tasmanian religion is lost, but what we have includes accounts of stories of heroes and "dreaming" time legends, with particular reverence for the moon and fear of demonic night spritis.
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Keep in mind that
@iamAtheistGirl
has 52.3k followers. I have 6.8k. Most actual historians here have follower numbers in the low thousands. Please stop supporting overconfident dimwits.
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... said to be uncertain. See for a summary of the relevant evidence.
The claim the Tasmanians "lost the ability to make floating vessels of any kind", however, is absolute and complete nonsense. We have multiple accounts of Tasmanians making bark ...
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... Tasmanians spent the summer in the hunting grounds of the interior and highlands and then in winter migrated to the milder weather and abundant seafood of the coasts.
The evidence regarding the eating of scale fish is ambiguous. Because Edgerton relied on about three ...
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@dhershiser
Scene: Rome, 30 AD
Sejanus: Listen up lads, the emperor has come up with an amazing plan. We're going to invent a religion to justify slavery.
Marcus: Pardon? To do what?
Sejanus: Justify slavery.
Gaius: Ummm, but everyone fully accepts slavery.
Marcus: Completely. It's been ...
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This tweet by
@AdvanceHumanism
is a perfect encapsulation of the low level, cartoonish grasp of the history of science that many online anti-religion activists operate with. Essentially, every single statement he makes here is wrong. No historian of science would agree with ...
@JoshuaDone
@Dickens_Fenster
Science persisted in spite of church suppression.
Copernicus & Galileo had books banned for fear of scientific ideas. Copernicus died before his trial, but Galileo was tried by the Inquisition after his book claiming the Earth revolved around the sun went against church dogma.
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So pretty much all claims in the thread are crap. Yes, the Tasmanians had a small tool kit. Yet they thrived in a hard environment for many thousands of years. NO, they were not angels living in a paradise - the bad treatment of their women was commented on by the Victorians ...
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Finally, the claim they "had no initiation rites, & only the barest ideas of religion" is complete nonsense. As with all Australian Aboriginal cultures, initiation into lore and cultural knowledge was central to the Tasmanians' culture and the scarification used to mark ...
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Accounts from colonial times refer to Tasmanian Aborigines using these vessels to travel to Bruny Island and even to Maatsuyker Island.
The idea that the Tasmanians were unable to make fire seems to have convinced the readers of Yevarժiaղ's thread that they had no fire at all.
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... This is nonsense. All accounts of the traditional Tasmanians talk about them carrying "firesticks" - which were actually tight bundles of fibrous stringy bark that were kept smouldering and carried to use to light fires. This led colonists to claim they could not make ...
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... To begin with, no-one in the Middle Ages talked about "feudalism" at all and if you asked a medieval king or lord or peasant about "the feudal system" they would be baffled. The term, like the concept, is a modern one: it appears first in French in 1823 and in English in ...
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I like the way this meme about “the Middle Ages” (illustrated, of course, by a *seventeenth century* painting) has done nothing but allow people to demonstrate that ... they know absolutely nothing about the actual Middle Ages.
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Here's one for the "medieval streets were full of filth and people emptied their chamber pots out their windows" crowd. No, they weren't and no, they didn't. Because people then felt the same as us about walking in crap. ...
In April 1307 Thomas Scott was assaulted when he relieved himself in public on a London street.
The men who attacked him told him he should have gone to a public toilet.
When I lived in Amsterdam people barely responded to seeing something like that :(
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... Aboriginal Tasmanians catching and eating fish, evidence that fish traps on the northern coast of Tasmania may be pre-colonial and testimony of Tasmanian Aboriginal descendants vehemently rejecting the claim their ancestors didn't eat fish. At best, the claim can only be ...
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@NYTScience
“ … burned Roman Catholic stargazers for questioning the centrality of the Earth in the cosmos …”
That simply didn’t happen. Ever.
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To elaborate on why "feudalism" never existed:-
Everyone has seen those pyramid diagrams that explain how "medieval society worked", with the king at the top, barons and lords on lower levels and the poor peasants at the bottom. Kids' textbooks explain that the king owned ...
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... fairly dated works (mainly Roth, as well as Lyndall Ryan, R. M. Jones and N.J.P. Plomley) he repeats the older claim - based on Jones' archaeology from the 1970s - that sometime around 3000 years ago the Tasmanians stopped eating scale fish. This was a puzzle, given the ...
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... abundance of such fish around the island. Taken with colonial accounts of Aborigines rejecting cooked fish when offered to them, the idea arose that there was some kind of taboo regarding this food. More recent analysis has cast doubt on this, noting other early accounts ...
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The level of delusion here is astonishing. This person seriously thinks they have seen multiple pictures of “Hitler meeting the Pope”. This is pure fantasy - no such pictures exist. Anti-religious fanaticism can cause wild nonsense just as easily as the religious variety.
@AtheistPhoenix
Look at all the pics of Hitler meeting the Pope. He was proud of it and was Christian.
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Strange but arrogant American cultural imperialists imposing a symptom of one of their unfortunate local political problems on an entire field of study, while certain non-Americans bow in submission. 🧐
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Modern people: “Haha, medieval people made the past look like their present! How dumb.”
Also modern people: “Yes, we’re casting Elander Moore as Earl Morcar of Northumbria in a 1066 drama series. What about it?”
🤔
my favorite type of medieval art is done by guys who have obviously only ever seen European cities
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(i) That quote is attributed to modern psychologist George Weinberg (1929-2017). The term "homophobic" is pretty clearly a very modern word which Weinberg himself coined in 1965.
(ii) Marie de France (c. 1160-1215) was a medieval poet who wrote Breton-style *lais* or ...
The concept of God is a product of human creation.
Many different religions have existed throughout the ages, yet none has proven the existence of any deity.
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@Funchal99
Virtually everything in this meme and this post is wrong.
Sigh, here we go again ...
(i) No, Hypatia was not "the first woman in history to make contributions in her fields". Centuries before she was born we have references to female scholars like Aspasia, Diotima, Arete, Hipparchia and Pamphile. Closer to her time we have ...
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... worked "in the Middle Ages", and was an economic, political, administrative and military system. This, we are also told, was a "bad thing"(tm) and was replaced by much better, shinier and more modern systems that were "good things"(tm). All neat and simple.
And also wrong. ..
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... 1839. The concept grew out of eighteenth century French attempts at finding historical roots their current social, economic and political systems, by both those nobles who wanted to preserve them and the radicals who wanted to overturn them. So French legal scholars ...
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... is there for those who want a hard slog. This article gives a good summary of the issue:
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@fakehistoryhunt
@bizlet7
The so-called "Letter of Lentulus" first appears in the fifteenth century and no modern scholars regards it as anything other than a pious fake. We have no writings by Pilate at all. There are no references to Jesus in any of the Talmudic material attributed to Gamaliel. And ...
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... period. And there were so many exceptions to the "feudalism" rule that the rule was no rule at all. Free cities, corporations, merchant guilds, upwardly mobile peasants, lords who held lands outright, church hierarchies and a melange of elements that simply didn't fit the ...
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@xt2348233
@haravayin_hogh
A hell of a lot of this “primitive and wretched people” stuff comes in the century after the Black War and is clearly heavily tinged by guilt at the near total destruction of the Tasmanian people. As late as the 1970s I was taught they were “a dying race” already on the …
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... all the land, granted bits of it to his vassals in return for support and military duties and so on down to the serfs, who owned nothing and worked to support everyone else. In some versions the Church is in there somewhere as well. This, we were told, is how things ...
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@lyssasphere
@tuttleryandavid
You've just made a jump from "a historical Jesus didn't exist at all" to "the Jesus who was son of God didn't exist". These are two distinct things. Perhaps you should make up your mind what exactly you're arguing against. Try that.
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... constructed a concept of medieval "féodalité" out of various elements they found in a disparate range of medieval documents, without too much regard for how accurately these texts were describing reality, whether what they described was typical or exceptional, regional ...
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@DrJessTaylor
Protect us from psychologists who make pronouncements on history. 🙄 No, it was not just women and girls. No, it was not just men doing the accusing. And no, it was not even close to "around one million" people executed. Crack a book by any historian on the matter, we beg you.
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So some would have seen earlier my comments on the bizarre claims in the video below (see link). But this person looked familiar, so I decided to do some digging.
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Did Christian theologians discourage everyone from washing or bathing and cause medieval Christians to avoid hygiene? Short answer - no.
Long answer - a thread 🧵
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... model at all meant the model increasingly began to creak under the weight of its exceptions. In 1974 Elizabeth A.R. Brown noted the lack of clothing on the emperor in her article "The Tyranny of a Construct: Feudalism and Historians of Medieval Europe", though she was
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I’m reading these three very silly books so you don’t have to. You’re welcome.
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... manorialism (serfs and peasants owing labour for full or partial land use), political ones like vassalage (a bewildering range of relationships between rulers, magnates and lesser lords based on oaths) and a host of others (military dues, ecclesiastical benefices, ...
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... and doubly so when the claim begins "In the Middle Ages ..."
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... variations or developments over time. They were lawyers, not modern historians. The neat system they constructed was then taken as a framework by nineteenth century historians and used to analyse all kinds of things in medieval history. Economic arrangments like ...
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@dhershiser
... frigging idiot would think this plan makes any kind of sense?
Sejanus: Well, morons on Twitter in 2000 years will think its' brilliant and will upvote and retweet it thousands of times.
Gaius: And then their civilisation will fall.
Marcus: Probably.
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... popularly conceived of never existed. This is why it's odd that so many people feel qualified to argue about whether it was or wasn't a good thing. Given that it ... actually ... wasn't a thing at all.
For further reading Brown's paper is a good start and Reynold's book ...
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... "in 1839", but Karl Marx was also cementing the concept with dogmatic rigidity and even historians like F.W. Maitland, who understood its problems, still found it useful enough to sustain it.
But as the twentieth century went on, the problems with "feudalism" became ...
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... essentially articulating what many already understood. In 1994 Susan Reynolds launched a detailed assault on the concept as a useful framework in her book *Fiefs and Vassals: The Medieval Evidence Reinterpreted*. There were disagreements with and ...
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So I went to my barber today, had 20 mins to kill before the appointment and went into a bookshop. I DON’T need any more history books. So, of course …
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... increasingly difficult to ignore. To begin with, few of the elements that supposedly made it up (vassalage. fiefdom, manorialism, military obligations) interconnected in the way the model claimed. They also weren't consistent across Europe or across the whole medieval ...
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... investitures of prelates etc.) all got jammed into this construct, even while many historians acknowledged that the whole framework didn't really reflect reality. By the late nineteenth century a historian asked "when did feudalism begin? could give the wry response ...
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For the record, there are NO contemporary references to Jesus (not that we’d expect any for a Galilean peasant preacher), so the claim we have contemporary descriptions of him is immediately nonsensical. All the claimed “descriptions” are later fantasies.
The so-called …
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Dumbest thing on Twitter today. And, of course, it's liked 1.1k times and retweeted 645 times. This is why the world is stupid.
Christianity is a “religion”that was created by the Roman empire to justify slavery. The rulers used psychological warfare to give their citizens what they wanted, while at the same time making sure they followed the rules. Nothing has changed in the past 2000 years!
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... Checkmate theists! Except the picture the meme uses to illustrate its "atheist temples" is of the Library of Trinity College Dublin. ...
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