Tom Stamatakis
@StamatakisCPA
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President of the Canadian Police Association, and the International Council of Police Representative Associations.
Vancouver, BC
Joined September 2016
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Amazes me when 1rst solution to recruiting problem is to lower standards. How about improved compensation, better working conditions & treatment? That might work. Be good 2 ensure we don't just hire anyone and cut them lose on the community...for what seem like obvious reasons
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Yet another example why serious bail reform conversation needed (among other things), arguably preventable death if previous offences been met with a serious response🤦♂️Accused cop killer was on bail after another officer attack: Court records via
@lfpress
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No EHS, no problem...VPD officer transports person requiring care from Davie St to St Paul's, going above & beyond helping people every day no matter who they are & despite what the critics say...
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Example of why public confidence in courts tanking. This specifically about entranceways, playgrounds & other public spaces where children, seniors & other vulnerable people affected...what about irreparable harm to broader community?
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Great response Mike, really too bad people aren't more thoughtful before they decide to wade in, especially elected officials who have a responsibility to all their constituents including the police...not helpful🤦🏻♂️
Facts of the incident involving an Edmonton police officer pushing a women to the ground.
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Where is the outrage at this type of behavior? Whatever the issues are, this type of violent behavior won't help resolve grievances....infuriating particularly when police blamed in the aftermath & and perpetrators take no responsibility
Protestors falsely blamed
#OPP
for escalation in
#Caledonia
. Extremely proud of my officers for their professional and measured response to keep the peace & preserve life while under attack. Arrests continue as members take responsible and sustained enforcement approach
@WR_OPP
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Seems like an awful lot of nonsense about all manner of symbols w/o any evidence to support some of the more provocative claims that they mean something negative🤦🏻♂️ Should Vancouver cops be allowed to continue wearing thin blue line patches? via
@viawesome
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Baiting officers & then initiating a resource heavy complaint is a misuse of police resources & process. Disingenuous but also the kind of mischief that accomplishes nothing. If they parked illegally make the complaint w/o the silly "baiting"🤦♂️
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Yes because if going to defund the heavily regulated public police whose individual & collective actions are overseen by civilian police boards & civilian led oversight agencies, it make more sense to go with unregulated private security that have no independent public oversight
As calls to “defund the police” grow louder, the private security sector could be handed an opportunity to grow.
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Please accept our condolences & know the thoughts and prayers of the entire policing community are with you, your members, and the community as you work through the aftermath of this incomprehensible incident.
The National Police Federation, representing ~20,000 RCMP Members across Canada, has released the following statement.
#Colchester
#NovaScotia
#RCMP
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Frustrating hey?
When people blame “the media” instead of mentioning specific people or claims, they’re sowing mistrust of an entire profession rather refuting an actual point
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@VancouverSun
.I guess "fact checking" & "working contacts" no longer matters? Member in hospital with serious head wound after unprovoked attack with metal pipe is what actually happened....do better.
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Watching local vaccine news coverage & health minister comments. Govt prioritized vaccinating DTES residents & other "hot spot" communities yet police & fire work in DTES, interact with residents, enter homes & businesses 4 public safety & to enforce govt orders, still waiting🤦🏻♂️
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@MelissaDeGenova
@christineeboyle
@VancouverPD
@VanFireRescue
This pisses me off. VPD & members raise 100's of thousands for charitable causes every year on own time, from own pockets often volunteering on days off, before shift all to promote Vancouver & generate good will, building positive relationships in community & this was take away?
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Take Police out of schools they said....
On a more serious topic,
@mikefarnworthbc
said the recent teen swarming and violent attacks, which were filmed/posted online, are despicable and disgusting. There are anti-bullying programs in schools but Farnworth said he’s shocked kids stood by while attacks happened.
#bcpoli
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Civilian employees are critical to the effective operation of every police service and underpin everything frontline police personnel respond to.
@StephKall
@VancouverPD
Specially trained civilian members of the
#VPD
who closely work with our Detectives behind the scenes to solve serious & complex crimes.
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Does this mean all who rushed to judge will now apologize & retract their criticism? No probably not but imagine the outrage if shoe on other foot & police did same...CCTV footage shows woman shoved by Edmonton police officer had knife via
@edmontonjournal
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Actually tensions are not "mounting" between police & community members. Its activists & individuals with an agenda that seem to want to manufacture an issue not the actual community...
Tensions are mounting between police and community members in Vancouver’s Downtown Eastside, after another police-involved shooting in the area Monday claimed the life of a man. Zahra Premji has the details.
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So disappointing...Sgt Harnett hangs onto car & somehow that becomes a mitigating factor in favour of accused?🤦🏻♂️Calgary teen acquitted of first-degree murder in dragging death of Sgt. Harnett, convicted of manslaughter instead via
@calgaryherald
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Transparency important but notion that decisions regarding equipment & training should be determined by headlines, populist rhetoric, or tone is offensive, how about decide on safety? Edmonton councillors defend police armoured vehicle purchase | CBC News
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Entire VPD executive show up along with police board reps & not enough? Adjudicator found officers not racist & apologized & case settled... Heiltsuk Nation lambasts Vancouver Police Board and chief after officers don't show for ceremony
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What's not helpful when discussing "guns" in Canada is the completely uninformed person wading in with incorrect information and misrepresenting data to suggest a problem where none exists...
@globeandmail
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@theJagmeetSingh
.sooner u move past blaming police who never asked to be in this role & instead focus on more mental health support, more addictions support, more resources 4 domestic violence, more 2 address poverty +, sooner get to different outcomes. Just blaming police = no change
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So quick to criticize, don't know context but policing is 24/7 service; police car can often be only place can take a break, eat your lunch, drink your coffee, phone home etc. Don't always have ability to go to office or other location....can spend many long ours in vehicle...
A Toronto police officer is facing questions after video surfaced showing him watching an NHL hockey game on his patrol car computer.
As
@ConsumerSOS
reports, the game was on just outside the scene of a double shooting Saturday.
READ MORE:
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Disappointing & misleading statements from Mayor on CKNW today effectively throwing Police & Fire under bus in midst of pandemic. Greatest area of growth at City hall is administration. Proportionally police budget has been same for years; between 19&21% of overall City budget
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This is interesting & very positive news in the face of all the criticism (particularly from BC) on Alberta's approach to substance use challenges... Alberta opioid fatalities down to lowest toll in four years
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Ironic this is purported to be all about concerns over "cost to taxpayers" yet all lengthy transition delays & court proceedings on an issue that's legally well established just add more cost - ultimately to be borne by taxpayer🤦♂️
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Hey Mayor Stewart, these are just some of the people that work at the VPD....just in case you weren't aware?
It’s Canadian Multiculturalism Day. Let’s recognize and appreciate all the diverse cultures that make up our country, and commit to equality and respect for all.
#MultiDay
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Better question is "How can we build capacity to provide support so police don't need to be called?"
How can police best serve and protect on mental-health crisis calls?
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This is the conversation that needs to be initiated by Police leaders right across the country...should have started a couple of years ago....
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Great to have the Premier of Ontario come out strongly supporting Law Enforcment...be nice to see Premiers accross the country do the same. Police personnel make significant contributions to community wellness every day; should be recognized
When our police cut off resources that crooks use for illegal activities, we give that money back to police services to fight crime and keep us safe. Pleased to announce at
@OPPAssociation
's AGM we are doubling the Proceeds of Crime grant by investing $6 million over 3 years.
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Minister Goodale, thank you for your continued support on this issue. Appreciate your government's continued efforts to prioritize this very important issue for all public safety personnel. This is an issue that crosses party lines & that all parliamentarians can get behind.
It’s estimated that 70,000 firefighters, police officers and paramedics have suffered from post-traumatic stress injuries (PTSI). Today,
@GinettePT
and I announced the Action Plan on PTSI – we can and must do better.
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Hmmm, policing is ultimately provincial jurisdiction. Given lack of progress or even obstruction of transition not sure why this would have been surprising or considered to be "heavy handed"?
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Hope those same "experts" also looking at why individuals came into contact with Police at all? Were there adequate supports; counselling, treatment, sobering centres, healthcare, family & community support? Where were the gaps that led to Police involvement? Bet there were many
Police shootings in 2021: Experts say number in Canada remains too high
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🤦🏻♂️this is getting ridiculous...no context, no awareness of community or police dynamics, & no experience or training. But thats how we are going to assess incidents? Excusable & understandable for citizen but CBC should do better; ask questions, do the diligence & be objective
Witness files excessive force complaint against Vancouver police over early morning arrest
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Thoughtful & appreciated statement from Paramedics in BC. Of course PIVOT would criticize; does not fit their narrative which is short on evidence or specifics. I've never heard one police officer or police service condone racism. Societal issue that we all care about.
Paramedics in BC say they need law enforcement to do their job safely amid calls to defund the police in the province.
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Can have all mental health support u want....if don't change our culture & practices which contribute to stigma, impact on self esteem & worth & contribute to self stigma, better education & access to evaluated treatment, will not get ahead of crisis
Panel on police suicides says officers need better mental health support
@R_JamiesonOPPA
@BruceChapman924
@DrKatyKamkar
@OPA_President
@DMMcFee
@YEG_Commission
@StamatakisCPA
@JennCAPG
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Seriously! More nonsense disguised as though it's "journalism". Where is the critical analysis of the circumstances? Whats the value of including Kash Heeds comments? Dated policing experience, little or no use of force knowledge & not at scene🤦♂️
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If courts continue to treat offences involving firearm as minor in terms of convicting & sentencing offenders, then Cdns can expect no reduction in gun violence. Glasgow found not guilty of trying to murder transit cop in Surrey
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Frustrating response...another example of quick "default" to the police & yet another "download"....again putting police in middle of controversial public policy decision & public. No matter what police do, will be criticized. Likely including by those who made the decisions...
As some businesses express concerns about enforcing B.C.'s pending vaccine passport system, Premier John Horgan has proposed a solution for dealing with difficult customers: call the police and let them sort it out.
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Hmmm, how about you first find a way to reduce demand on the police before funding is reduced? We've already seen the consequences of reducing funding while demand increases....
Vancouver city council’s goal is to redirect funds from the VPD budget to have community-led groups, non-profit societies, health agencies and social service providers respond to such calls.
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Where's all the coverage? Critics, pundits & activists trip over each other in zeal to criticize police & media provide ready platform when a mistake or incident at all controversial occurs. Here's an example of extraordinary police response (typical by the way) & not a peep🤷🏻♂️
“Occupants within the unit fired multiple rounds of gunfire at the officers,” said Toronto Police “The officers did not return fire.”
Cops kept powder dry when kids shot at them.
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Disappointing this has become such a partisan issue given the impact these blockades have had on people & on the economy. Also not fair to police personnel whose lives & those of families turned upside because of how demanding policing these protests can be....
Trudeau says MPs who vote against the Emergencies Act indicate that "they don’t trust the government to make incredibly momentous and important decisions"
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Officer shot twice but not enough to convict for 2nd degree murder!!! Firearms don't discharge themselves; have to have intent. Conclusion that shooting some one could likely lead to death or serious injury not hard to reach. Conviction for "assualt" sends wrong message...
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Very disappointing shortsighted decision, pleased many Carleton faculty and alumni rejecting this approach. Seems inconsistent with concepts of education and learning🤷🏻♂️Carleton criminology department cuts ties with police, prisons | CBC News
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Clear statement from
#VPDPoliceBoard
demonstrating leadership, effective governance, & thoughtful consideration of all relevant issues. Exactly how a Board should function - contrast that to divisive, poorly considered, & misleading statements made by Mayor Kennedy Stewart...
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Oppenheimer park, Crab Beach parking lot, Covid Protests, increased Commercial BNE's, more domestic violence, more speeding on streets & more what reduction in workload?
Police budget cut 1%. Reduced work due to bars being closed, no big sports events, no celebration of lights etc.
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Tragic whenever person injured or dies in aftermath of police interaction but context important. Police respond 2 approximately 13 million calls 4 service in Canada annually. Tone & quoted language in article offensive. Shld look upstream to avoid Police interaction in 1st place
At least 32 people were shot dead by on-duty police officers across Canada in the first 11 months of 2021; experts say that's too high
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Disappointing process & decision.140 ppl out of overall pop. of 1 million show up make emotional statements largely absent of actual data/evidence & council cuts $11 million. Will likely have greatest impact on most vulnerable & members already facing significant wellness issues
Edmonton city council approves police reform motion, including $11M budget cut over two years
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Not sure how the activities of any organization advocating for improved safety for their members & the public could possibly be troubling🤷♂️. Seems to me the only person politicizing the issue is this crimonologist...
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Sadly, this decision will not only negatively impact most vulnerable but also police personnel. ⬆️ workload, less people = more overtime ⬇️wellness. Sources tell me almost 40% of current officers in recent survey considering move 2 Surrey PD. Council decision won't help....
#TY
to all the people who came out to
#SupportThePolice
-
#Vancouver
City Council just approved the 2021 budget, which means 61 fewer
#VPD
police recruits in 2021
#RealityCheck
@VancouverPD
@VanPoliceBoard
@CityofVancouver
#defunded
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A) cops are not going to knock on your door unless they have evidence of impaired driving or accident where impaired driving suspected, B) there aren't enough resources to start randomonly knocking on doors even if we could or wanted to (which we don't)
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Great news, long overdue staff increases will help improve employee wellness, address ever increasing workload challenges, and as importantly, will support ensuring safety & security in the City which is good for citizens, businesses, and the broader economy
Thank you
#Vancouver
City Council for supporting the
#VPD
& approving 25 new police officers & 10 new civilian professionals for the 2020 budget!
@VancouverPD
@CityofVancouver
@VanPoliceBoard
#PublicSafetyMatters
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Didnt "accidentally" capture suspect. Utilised local knowledge, followed thru on suspicions, methodically exposed person, what cops do daily
Montreal police officers lauded for accidentally catching one of America's most wanted fugitives:
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Don't think you can describe it as anything but a political move....
WATCH/READ: Vancouver Police are disappointed by the Vancouver School Board’s vote to end the officer liaison program, calling it a “political move.”
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What a load of "no context" BS. First, police have never advocated 4 this work, guess what, it's ours cause we're it. Look upstream 2 see where social & health safety net failed🤦♂️not just at police! 9 dead in 18 police shootings in B.C. so far this year
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Lots of media coverage at the time, any now? I'll save you the trouble - no.
UPDATE: The Independent Investigations Office has now concluded:
- VPD officers acted calmly, lawfully, and professionally
- video evidence confirms no excessive force was used
- there is no evidence that police caused a physical injury
- the complainant was intoxicated in
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Its not what Vancouver Police "want" , its what's required to fund resources necessary to meet demand 4 service & unique policing challenges in Vancouver: mental health, problematic substance abuse & related issues, traditional & organized crime, traffic, protests, events & more
Vancouver police want $340.4 million or more than one-fifth of the city's entire 2020 operating budget
#vanpoli
#VPD
#Vancouver
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Goal of Police in any encounter is 2 resolve w/o using any force. Is embedded in all training & always been. Sadly not always outcome. Useful if CBC would spend time investigating what led 2 encounter & what opportunities there were 2 intervene before Police called
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Which parents, how many? What steps were taken to address concerns before entire program with clear benefits cancelled? Parents raise concerns over ABC Vancouver's promise to bring back school liaison officers | CBC News
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This is such a load of crap. Entire focus of police presence is to deal with disorder and impact on vulnerable people in DTES. Nothing Police are doing prevents anyone from access to any services...this tired "blame the police" rhetoric needs to go
Advocates fear Downtown Eastside police crackdown pushes drug users into shadows
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Ridiculous, many important & serious issues 2 focus on; do that. Canadian flag has been coopted by radical groups 2 & on uniform do we prohibit that 2?Calgary police officers will defy order to stop wearing 'thin blue line' patch: union via
@calgaryherald
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And yet, if he didn't get there as quickly as possible he could have also just as easily have been disciplined for being "in neglect of duty". No problem with discipline where proportionate and appropriate however this is chicken shit and really damages morale
New from me: an Edmonton police officer is being disciplined for failing to stop on the right side of a stop line while driving to a domestic violence call where a woman was being held at knifepoint. His union is speaking out about the decision.
#yeg
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School resource officers make students feel safer, new report finds
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So aggravating....so really have no corroborated facts but print something anyway (not going to call it a story)🤦🏻♂️can see why confidence in media continues to slide...not helpful on so many levels, arguably irresponsible.
Police incident unfolding in Vancouver's Downtown Eastside
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Great meeting with Mr O'toole today, thoughtful discussion about a variety of public safety issues including how to get ahead of impact of firearms violence plaguing communities across Canada, parole & bail reform, police wellness & staffing challenges.
Police officers need to be a part of the public conversation on how best to keep our communities safe. I met with
@StamatakisCPA
, President of the Canadian Police Association, who represents 60,000 police personnel across Canada. 1/2
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This was tragic incident all the way around & very good example of toll traumatic incidents take on police personnel even where outcome tragic for citizen. Other responding officers, dispatchers & personnel pay a price too. Heart goes out to Justin, family & all involved🙏
“My family has paid a huge price for this,“ Const. Justin Fraser said through tears, adding his children “lost the dad that I was. It’s so not fair to them.”
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Onto the next 100 years! Two great days with many members dropping by to commemorate the milestone. Thoughtful recognition from Chief Palmer and team!
#thanks
#greatrelationship
!
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Beyond ridiculous. Fire have reported 1000+ fires, police respond to assaults, stabbings, & shootings in area daily & to assist city staff, paramedics, & fire. Wish media would stop amplifying misleading rhetoric so focus can b 2 assist those in need not vilifying 1st responders
Advocates for people living along East Hastings Street in Vancouver blasted the City of Vancouver, and its police and fire departments Tuesday, for their actions in decamping the area.
Some claim they are conducting "a campaign of terror"
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Very moving service today. Privilege to be there along with many other LE, first responder, and other public safety personnel along with many members of public
Today we celebrate Cst John Davidson's life and service to the
@City_Abbotsford
. Join us as the procession starts at 11:30am. Let's come together and honour
#OurFallenHero
.
#abbypdstrong
#abbystrong
#386
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No place 4 politics when it comes 2 public safety. EHS & Fire collegues doing their best with capacity they have. Sad to see so many elected officials recognize these challenges w/o mentioning impact on police & lack of capacity across entire system including coroner's service.
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Last time I checked almost 700k people in Vancouver not to mention we just went through election where Sim & ABC majority council won overwhelming support of voters! What 100 speakers?
So far 100 percent of speakers opposed to 100 new cops. Dtes workers sticking up for
@community
.
#vanpoli
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Mayor & chair of Police Board doesn't want or have time to recognize fantastic work of VPD members in City serving & protecting public every day, including vulnerable & marginalized persons; nice to see President of BCPFFA has time & does! Right back at you & your members Gord!
Thank you to our brothers and sisters
@VancouverPD
@vpu
who work tirelessly to protect our city, and are deserving of our praise for the work they do
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Or alternative headline could be "Police apprehend female armed with a weapon at BC Women's Hospital keeping patients & staff safe"?🤷🏻♂️Police deploy bean bag shotgun in arrest at B.C. Women's Hospital via
@TheRecord
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Pretty tone deaf issue 2 raise in light of broader conversation occurring about violence in communities including at schools & that involve youth. Ntm number of police homicides & serious injuries in last 7 mos. Significant public & officer safety issue.
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Example of daily conflict between citizens & homeless, addicted or persons with mental health issues w/o necessary supports & example of how tough effective de-escalstion can be. Interestingly VPD officer in this same context would be facing conduct investigation
@PtFry
"My wife's going to kill me when she sees this video and says, 'what were you thinking,' but at the same time I'm not going to stand back and let him assault my friend and neighbour," said Coun. Pete Fry.
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That's disappointing & really too bad...irony is will be vulnerable students this will impact most. Recent homicide of youth on w/s just one example of positive impact of SLO. Liason to family, resource to school, assistance to broader school pop in face of serious crime...
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You'll see more of this. The impact on our officers the position they are being put in by police leaders & elected officials & how they are being treated by so called protesters & the media is completely unacceptable...
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"Toot his horn" a little more!?! Thats all he did🤦🏻♂️Mayor Kennedy Stewart: ‘I should have tooted my horn a bit more’ via
@viawesome
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Clear and decisive vote for change after four years of terrible leadership through some very serious issues (too many to list) that have only gotten worse...
#BREAKING
NEWS: Vancouverites have elected Ken Sim the next mayor, CityNews projects.
#VanPoli
#Vancouver
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Beyond ridiculous; has nothing to do with protecting members or public. If that was concern RCMP would create similar prohibition 4 excessively long extended shifts, consecutive work days, overtime & on call. Effects of fatigue on cognitive impairment are well established.
Global News can confirm that RCMP members will be banned from consuming legal cannabis within 28 days of being on shift.
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Another example of public policy disconnect to what's occurring in communities. Inadequate healthcare, housing, & social services = more downloading to police & inevitable line up of police critics on something created by multiple up stream failures....
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He's also been applauded by citizens, & various groups within the community, including activists for all kinds of people & causes for his responsiveness & empathy to their concerns & issues. He's known as a progressive & innovative police leader. Good to remember that context..
#Vancouver
Police Chief Adam Palmer has been applauded by officers past-and-present for his adamant denial of systemic racism in Canadian policing, but drawn criticism from others.
Yesterday, the Police Board heard a call for the Chief to be replaced:
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Interesting that many of the people & groups that have politicized police for years now; esp the last 3, now complaining about politicizing police🤷🏻♂️ Vancouver police report 'leaves a bad taste' for critics who say cops are becoming too political | CBC News
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Congratulations Adam on a great term as CACP President, been a pleasure to work with you over these last two years! Congratulations to incoming CACP President Larkin, looking forward to ongoing collaboration between CPA & CACP as we navigate through various policing challenges!
Honoured to have served as the President of the
@CACP_ACCP
for the past 2 yrs & proud to turn the reigns over to the in-coming
#CACP
President
@Chief_BLarkin
from
@WRPSToday
@VancouverPD
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Wow, this feels kind of like elementary school and "tattle tale"...with everything going on in the world, this is the story to write?
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Interesting term to use in context of a population of almost 14 million, 33,000 police and in excess of million calls for service. 380 files, over 95% of which confirm actions of police appropriate in circumstances....
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This is a ridiculous statement! No budget more transparent or reviewed more than police budget! You made arbitrary decision evidence & data did not support. Citizens should be concerned but about unaccountable council spending but not on this core service...
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Been a VPD member for over 30 years, VPU President for over 20 years, many budget challenges over that period of time, some very contentious, first time this has happened
The Vancouver Police Chief is slamming the city’s decision to cut the force's budget by $3.5-million.
@tinalovgreen
spoke with Chief Adam Palmer, who says what makes the decision worse is that it was made behind closed doors:
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Its a free for all, has been for years under guise of vulnerability & poverty yet people being seriously assaulted & harmed every day. Very sad there does not appear to be any desire to address this...
The deadline to remove tents on Hastings Street has passed but not much has changed, despite the warning the encampment could pose a huge fire risk.
@EmadAgahi
has more on the challenge to safely enforce the order but also find housing for everyone.
More:
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This is a tragedy, but this kind of reporting from media is once again disappointing. Blaming police w/o any kind of depth to coverage & issues disservice to all...
Unarmed and 'begging for help:' Family of man shot with bean bag gun in Vancouver wants answers
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Really unfortunate you choose to completely misrepresent my comments & views which are completely focused on a collaborative, proactive approach focused on preventing these kinds of tragedies & saving lives of anyone in crisis in our communities including indigenous persons.
UBCIC is horrified by the President of the Canadian Police Association’s callous disregard for Indigenous lives. Stamatakis racist tweet demonstrates an unfortunate truth – Indigenous people must avoid interactions with the police if they want to live.
#justiceforchris
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Interesting service would do study on basis that "concerned" about length of 12 hour shift but have no problem demanding same members work mandatory overtime, attend court after night shift, stay on call etc etc. Be good to first address all these issues before shift length
Report questions 12-hour shifts for Calgary police but officers 'really love' them
@CPA_Bakes
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Amazing response by a single officer to this incredibly tragic incident and Star needs to reference Yatim shooting in 2013 almost 5 years ago? How many thousands of incidents have Toronto Police officers successfully resolved over that period?
“He’s shaken up by the whole thing, and shaken up by the magnitude. He said, ‘you know, I was just doing my job,’ ” Mike McCormack, president of the Toronto Police Association, said of the officer.
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Much attention & discussion recently about "recruiting" in Police sector in challenging labour environment. Wonder how much easier would be (& less pressure) if focused as much/ more on "retention"? Take care of people you have (internally & externally) might see more interest..
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Narrative hijacked & ignores many steps taken by VPD, Chief Palmer & others 2 promote diversity, changes 2 policies & practices 2 adopt alternatives 2 enforcment & improve relationship with diverse population in Vancouver & still listening, trying to do better. This doesn't help
An anti-racism advocate addressed the Vancouver Police Board Thursday, calling on Chief Adam Palmer to resign -- saying his position that there is no systemic racism within the department is "untenable"
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Huh? Pointing to 2 incidents over 3 years during which VPD handled around 900k calls for service & many more interactions with public. Both incidents investigated by independent oversight agencies (among others) how much more oversight can police have, what would make it better?
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