Aristotle
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🧵In Remake, you can see that the whisper tornado isn’t actually destroying anything.
It’s duplicating it.
Everything in Midgar, including the people were duplicated.
Then, this Midgar copy was merged with Zack’s world.
And that’s the world we see in the beginning of Rebirth
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🧵Narratively:
-Tifa and Cloud’s relationship has little to do with love and more to do with Clouds past insecurities
While
-Aerith and Cloud relationship is directly about true love, a tragic romance, and 2 people that are canonically perfect for each other
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🧵PREDICTION:
Aerith saying this line is setting up for her reunion with Cloud AFTER P3’s lifestream sequence when he’s free of Zack’s persona.
This matches Nojima’s writing style and is what he did in TOTP.
& it seems to be foreshadowed in Loveless.
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🧵Aerith’s fate
-Why she can NOT fulfill the same role she played in the OG w/ regards to her death
&
-Why her survival **adds** to the themes present in the Remake trilogy
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🧵Aerith’s GS & Dream date
-Cloud’s “not interested” persona and his fear of emotional rejection
-Aerith’s role in breaking that shell open
-Why Aerith has been narritively described as the perfect girl for Cloud
& Why it’s so important for his character
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🧵Cloud
-Excitedly perks up when he hears Aerith say that she loves him(好き explained in the next tweet)
&
-Disappointedly regresses and frowns when he hears Aerith add uncertainty to that love.
I added notes to the body language and highlighted the moment here⬇️
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🧵My perspective on Loveless’ foreshadowing
-Rebirth was fundamentally changed from Crisis Core’s loveless
-What’s important is what Rebirth’s loveless shows us
-I think the play foreshadows Cloud in Aerith’s world after the Lifestream Sequence in P3
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🧵Cloud’s Mocap Actor
-Similarity between Tifa’s GS date & Remake Resolution hug
-Cloud as a “Chuunbiyou”(8th grade syndrome) which gets worse(w/ Tifa’s date)
“If I don’t hug her, I’m not a man”
Thanks
@integrativekola
for helping w/ translation &
@mlwjrpg
for the footage!
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I always thought this was an optional scene dependent on your date.
Bc it happened right after the Ch.8 date.
But no lol.
A Tifa playthrough would have you date her just to leave her on her own right after, while you hug/shield a different girl 😂😂
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📹Cloud’s mocap actor Rebirth translated reactions!
1.) He thinks Cloud was mesmerized when Cloud opened the door to Aerith at the Chapter 8 date.
2.) He also thought Aerith was perceptive when they were talking about Jessie on the date and seemed to really enjoy that segment
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This is not a story of “Childhood friends loved each other as kids! The boy wanted to be strong just for his lifelong love!!”
No.
It’s a story of a boy who was left out, not noticed, not acknowledged, lonely, and left feeling inferior because of it.
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The fandom treated Biggs/Zack’s distorted sense of time & the cracked sky as a big mystery.
…But it seems the game literally explains it to us in Chapter 10 via the Gi?
It looks like time being distorted and the sky cracking is just part of what occurs at the end of the world.
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*Aerith scoots closer to Cloud*
Cloud: Tries to look as if he doesn’t care
Reality—**Heart is pounding**
lmao. It’s canon.
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@Megasmash185
@k3ntruong_thai
@AerithCloud3
Here, Cloud WANTS Aerith to lead him.
He notices it the photographer.
And rather than taking initiative and just going there himself, he gets Aerith’s attention so that SHE can lead him there.
Mother knows best.
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I want to note that in Japanese, the remake ultimania compares Tifa scene to a “One night mistake” 💀
「夜の過ち」Night Mistake
Ie, something you do and regret the morning after 😂
あるいは、それ はクラウドが経験したことのない若者ゆえの一夜の過ちに似た、青春のほ ろ苦い思い出
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Lmao guys. They’re using an earring as evidence of Tifa being the intended Rosa.
I can’t 😂 😂
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Not only is Aerith the default Rosa but
-Aerith’s Rosa is the only one to talk about 真実の愛-True love
What does Tifa’s rosa talk about?
-Cloud being a hero.
The difference between the two is reflective of the narrative purpose behind each relationship.
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“But he became a soldier just for her!!”
No. He became a soldier because of a LACK of acknowledgement from her.
He was lonely as a kid.
He was barely noticed by Tifa and her group of friends and never invited to play despite desperately wanting to.
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“But Rebirth tifa said that it was Cloud who ignored them!”
No.
Cloud canonically got his false memories from Tifa when reconnecting after the death of Zack.
From the Remake Ultimania, we know that this memory is false and that it was in fact, Tifa that did not notice Cloud.
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@Megasmash185
@k3ntruong_thai
@AerithCloud3
Tifa is unable to lead/pull Cloud
That poor dynamic is displayed at the sky wheel date
They’re fumbling around and almost miss the ride because Tifa can’t lead
She even notices the ride running away, and rather than take initiative, gets Clouds attention so he can lead instead
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@ShinraArch
Just adding that this was all canonized in the Crisis Core Ultimania
The same Ultimania that said they were too juvenile to call their attraction “love” and that it was more like friendship
That also uses the words “platonic” and “fleeting feelings” to describe the relationship
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She barely noticed cloud. They barely ever spoke to each other
The only time he ever really made an impression on her was the water tower promise.
Despite basically never talking to him before
and
Never seeing him again afterwards until Midgar, as adults.
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BTW Aerith is alive in a new world created when Cloud defied fate.
Only theory that makes sense.
Fear their reunion, toxic clotis.
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I went through all the CT qrts of this
Quick thread🧵
TDLR, not a single argument countered the actual point being made nor even contradicted it.
Most was just emotional rage, the rest were argumentative tangents that still leads to the same premise behind my claim being true
🧵Narratively:
-Tifa and Cloud’s relationship has little to do with love and more to do with Clouds past insecurities
While
-Aerith and Cloud relationship is directly about true love, a tragic romance, and 2 people that are canonically perfect for each other
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The girl he “loves” is crying in his arms w/ deep trauma being let out.
Surely the only thing on his mind would be her and his love for her, right?
Nope lol.
Instead, he’s thinking about how cool he is for finally becoming the hero he always wanted to be 😂
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It’s DIRECTLY about the love between them, her death, and nothing else
She says to him not to fall in love with her because she will die and it will pain him
His body language and:
“Don’t I get a say in all this”
Assertive-“I’m coming for you”
Tells us it’s already too late
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Cloud’s insecurities started at not being acknowledged.
And it compounded at his failure to save Tifa at Mt. Nibel.
To which the whole village blamed and shunned him & his family for.
His childhood is filled with failure and a LACK of acknowledgement
Kinda like Naruto lol
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As Claudia describes in Japanese—
The perfect girl for him is a bit of an “older sister” type that can strongly pull/lead him in a specific path.
This is EXACTLY how Aerith is described in multiple canon character profiles in Japanese.
Even NPCs describe her in the same way.
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Here’s Cloud WANTING Aerith to lead him.
Tifa wants Cloud to lead as her hero.
While Cloud needs/wants Aerith to lead him instead.
Him not having someone like Aerith as a kid is EXACTLY why he was secluded and lonely throughout his childhood.
@Megasmash185
@k3ntruong_thai
@AerithCloud3
Here, Cloud WANTS Aerith to lead him.
He notices it the photographer.
And rather than taking initiative and just going there himself, he gets Aerith’s attention so that SHE can lead him there.
Mother knows best.
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The tornado Zack sees on TV is really the fight we had with the whispers at the end of Remake.
Except they can’t actually see the whispers.
So to them it’s just a tornado.
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THIS is why he wanted to be a soldier
It’s less about actual “love” for Tifa & more about wanting to be noticed due to being ignored and shunned his whole life
An internal desire to prove everyone wrong.
This is also directly reflected in the Tifa remake resolution scene
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Aerith leading him around is their dynamic.
By placing Claudia’s scene after meeting Aerith and sleeping in her house, while describing the “perfect girl” in the exact same way Aerith is described…
The devs are effectively saying Aerith IS the perfect girl for Cloud.
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📹Cloud’s mocap actor & his reaction to Cloud bringing up Aerith’s romantic feelings on Tifa’s GS date.
It’s…interesting. Not an uncommon reaction tbh.
Thanks to
@integrativekola
for helping out with the translation.
I’ll try to get some more translations of his streams out
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Cloud is naturally shy and awkward.
He needs someone strong willed that’s able to pull/lead him around everywhere.
Someone like that would’ve ensured he was not left out as a kid.
Tifa, whom is shy timid, and submissive is NOT it.
Aerith IS that person.
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-CTs:
“Cloud isn’t Alphreid. It’s really meant for Zack!!”
-The game:
“Cloud was a perfect Alphreid! He was born to play the role”
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Again
CA=True Love
CT=Resolving Clouds insecurities.
We also see that Aerith, not tifa, is the perfect type of girl for Cloud, further proving it.
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It’s also seen in more subtle ways.
In loveless:
Yuffie spins too fast, too much and falls out of dizziness.
Tifa hesitates, spins too little, too slow, and basically has to have Cloud spin for her.
While Aerith is in PERFECT sync. Not too fast. Not too slow. Perfect.
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CA, narratively, is directly about the strength of the true love between them so that her death will hit harder.
While CT is more about HIM and resolving his insecurities.
It’s shown again thematically in the Loveless play with the differences in Rosa.
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Clotis have been really rabid lately.
A bit different than their usually stupidity.
It’s like more nonsensical now, if that was even possible lmao.
I think I’ll have a special thread coming tomorrow just for them.
Prep for war lol.
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Aerith compliments him perfectly while the others do not.
It’s done for a narrative reason.
Aerith is canonically the *perfect* type of girl for Cloud.
Narratively, CA is meant to have the highest amount of love for this perfect match so that her coming death hits harder.
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It’s shown directly in the narrative.
Their relationship is MORE about HIM and his past shortcomings than it is about THEM and actual “love” between them.
Now contrast this to the Aerith remake resolution scene:
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The same can’t be said for CT(not the perfect type for Cloud), which is directly based off resolving his insecurities.
Again,
CA=True love that’s perfect for each other
CT=About Cloud and resolving his insecurities
Fin
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Except Cloud(ex-soldier buster sword) is missing.
Why?
I think it’s because he is still stuck at the edge of creation.
We never see him leave. Nor even the “white flash” indicating him leave.
He is stuck there while everyone else falls and gets injured from debris.
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The Tifa protection squad found my thread while I was asleep as I was hoping for bc I made it specifically for them
95% of it is just emotional screaming lmfao
The other 5% is either deflections to a new argument, or a “mistranslation” Inalready knew about that has no relevance
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This explains a lot, I think.
It explains why Cloud is missing.
It explains why the party is injured.
It explains what the “tornado” is.
It explains why Zack comes to a Midgar, seemingly in the future(it’s our duplicate Midgar)
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I didn’t notice this on my playthrough but someone mentioned it and I can’t stop thinking about it.
When talking to Sephiroth, lifestream particles start to appear and surround Aerith.
Then, her voice doubles like 2 aerith’s are speaking.
(3:07:24)
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Aerith is that person while Tifa is unable to fulfill this role.
Here’s an example of them fumbling on their sky wheel date because of her not being able to lead and almost missing the ride as a result.
@Megasmash185
@k3ntruong_thai
@AerithCloud3
Tifa is unable to lead/pull Cloud
That poor dynamic is displayed at the sky wheel date
They’re fumbling around and almost miss the ride because Tifa can’t lead
She even notices the ride running away, and rather than take initiative, gets Clouds attention so he can lead instead
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It also explains why Marlene is indicated to be the same Marlene that we saw in Remake.
The Marlene that got these visions from our Aerith.
Because she was copied and merged with Zack’s world.
Elmyra too as she takes care of Marlene, waiting for Barrett to come back.
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@KenMastersUSA
This adds a lot more depth to that one ultimania quote on Aerith seeing through to Clouds true self.
Not only does Aerith see through to it, but more of it literally comes out *because* of Aerith.
AND he’s aware of it too!
Man, this was SUCH a great scene. ❤️
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Zack either had his world merged, or was saved and sent to this duplicate midgar world too, like biggs.
I think I lean towards the latter.
Given by how the whispers saved him w/rainbow glow, and his line about being outnumbered one minute and alone the next.
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(🧵/4)
“Do you want to hear about the girl I love THE MOST right now?”
「いっちばん」-The most/Number 1
「いま」right NOW
Implying he has other choices of girls he loves too.
&
That his preference of who he loves most is subject to change
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I recommend reading this thread too as to why CT is not a healthy dynamic.
Alright I'm about get a lot of heat for this OPINION PIECE I'm gonna write, but let me preface that I have experience as a polyamory/relationship coach & am a lifelong FF7 fan. That being said, I present:
Why Cloti is an Example of Unhealthy Love: Cloud & Tifa Deserve Better ⬇️
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***This does not fit the Remake series with Aerith***
-Her death was not sudden
-Everyone knew about it, even the characters WITHIN the game
-It was foreshadowed & hinted throughout the entirety of the past 2 games
-She LITERALLY comes back the second after her “death”
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「誇りの翼は折れ ついに倒れたとき 戦士は女神に愛され 英雄となった」
“When his wings of pride break and he finally falls, the warrior will be loved by the goddess and he becomes a hero”
Wing of pride=his false soldier persona
This is when he becomes his true self post LSS.
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Hey guys.
Just wanted to say that I recently had a baby in the family + very, very busy with work so I haven’t been as active and probably won’t for a while.
I’ll try to pop in now and then but stay strong everyone!🫡
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In Zack’s world, our party is seen heavily injured, being pulled from the debris, at the highway.
I think this Barrett, Red, etc, is the same ones we saw/played in remake fighting the whispers.
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-The fight in remake happens high above Midgar.
I think after the fight, something happens and everything comes falling down.
Resulting in the party being crushed under debris, which is how they’re found in Zack’s POV.
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While we’re talking about EC & Aerith noticing Cloud’s silent jealously just like the OG
Lets also note
-EC affirmed Aerith as the perfect girl for Cloud, not Tifa
&
-Aerith is the only girl that’s canonically valid to be interpreted as who Cloud cherishes MOST(via ultimania)
The scene this takes place in Remake in Aerith’s section of the game.
He dreams this sequence AFTER meeting and spending the day with her while sleeping in HER house.
W/ the description, it really seals the deal.
EC seemed to want to correct any confusion too
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C: “We’ll quickly find Sephiroth and beat him!”
A: **Immediately stops walking and pauses for a few seconds before saying anything,**
**turns quickly**
“Certainly, you will!”
—-
The pause after Cloud mentions finding sephiroth and beating him is interesting
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🔹“Defying Fate” is a *new* theme that was added to the remake trilogy.
Whose fate is the most notable of the OG?
Whose fate made the game as big as it was?
Aerith’s.
The devs are aware of this.
This theme is attached to Aerith’s fate at its core—Intentionally.
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Remake’s death:
-Unexpected? Sudden?❌
-A lack of foreshadowing & hints? ❌
-Not a sacrifice? ❌
-No “Goodbye”? ❌
-Gone from the game after her death? ❌❌❌
ALL the aspects that made her death so impactful & important to the games legacy
***does NOT exist in remake****
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🔹Nomura also made a point for her death to NOT be a sacrifice in the OG.
As in, she died thinking she still had the rest of her future ahead of her, **unknowingly** walking to her death
He did NOT want a “brave, noble character” that’s sacrificing themselves for a cause.
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🔹Aerith’s role in the OG game w/ her death
Pay attention to the nuance here
-Her simply dying was NOT important to the themes of the game & what made the OG so famous
-It’s HOW they portrayed the death.
The distinction there is critical and is something the devs emphasized.
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Whenever he feels insecure, he reverts back into this persona.
For ex,
Tifa implies that Cloud may have trouble getting into SOLDIER.
In response to that: he closes himself off a bit, puts his leg up—forming a wall, and looks away.
It’s like a protective mechanism for him.
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Aerith uses 好き(suki) here as “like/love”.
好き, on a literal basis, translates to “like”.
But it’s localized to EN as love, as 好き is the JP word used in romantic confessions.
For ex, Aerith uses that same 好き when talking about her feelings for Zack
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There are a few possible interpretations of this scene.
1.)She’s easing her confession due to her coming death to make it easier for cloud
2.) Zack was more puppy love. So Cloud is the first time she experienced a real matured loved.
3.) She’s genuinely uncertain
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Again, this is NOT what occurs in remake.
Aerith is **aware** of her fate and accepts it as a needed outcome
She is *knowingly* walking to her death thinking that it is needed for her to die.
Her death is a sacrifice this time, a very CLEAR difference from the OG.
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There’s also a very weird idea coming from a toxic part of the fandom in regards to “friendzoning” here too.
I’ll likely do a thread going point by point of the arguments.
I see no validity to the idea. Only the opposite.
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TLDR:
The interpretation that Aerith is uncertain of her feelings towards Cloud is due to his Zack persona still covering his real self.
Its setting up for their reunion post-LSS where Aerith will meet the real Cloud.
This matches Nojima’s writing style and is foreshadowed.
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I think that if the OG’s theme was successful in reaching you, you *should* want Aerith to live.
Of course there are outliers.
But to me, it’s no surprise that the vast majority of people that **want** her dead come from a certain side of the fandom.
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Simply dying and grieving was NOT what made the core of FF7
It’s HOW the death was portrayed in that **specific** way
The devs made that very clear
EVERYTHING that made her death special in the OG is NOT in Remake.
Instead, it was replaced with a new theme of “defying fate”
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Now, Cloud still has his Zack persona covering his real self.
A true confession at this point would be a bit inappropriate, sending the wrong message.
Considering the narrative is steering towards Aerith wanting to meet the REAL cloud, liking him for HIM, not the false persona.
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Ultimately, Aerith scoots over and hugs his arm.
Cloud, in this moment, becomes comfortable in emotionally connecting w/ her & eases into her hug with no resistance.
Or he builds up courage to reciprocate—interlocking fingers, *cautiously* checking to see any signs of rejection
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Not only does she quite literally come back controllable, fighting with the protagonist, AND interacting with him *physically*,
But she will also most definitely be appearing in part 3 in a significant manner as well.
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The inspiration for her death came about by one of the dev’s mothers passing
**Sudden, unexpected, and absolute** death that comes out of nowhere
-No goodbyes
-No “death bed” speech
-No hint of the death beforehand
Sudden and permanent. You **don’t** talk to the person again
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It also seems biggs was transported from our world at his death, to this world by the whispers.
Remember he can’t see the whispers
So he just feels wind blowing transporting him to this world
Him at sector 7->orphanage without anyone knowing how he got there(transported there)
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It’s also what Zack uses to ask Marlene on Aerith having feelings for Cloud.
So, I translated 好き as “love” here just so Cloud’s perspective could be highlighted.
As he’ll essentially be hearing Aerith say that she loves him from that first line.
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No one expected a beloved main character to die like that back then.
It was very shocking and realistic.
She died and was *actually* gone from the game.
Again, it’s not the death itself that’s important.
It’s HOW the death was treated. Sudden and permanent.
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Hi Yoki!
I wonder why you didn’t quote the entire tweet? Instead you screenshot isolated parts of it?
Scared of a response?
Or scared to show the entire content in the thread?
Especially since it addresses some of your points via context?
Let’s start, part by point.
“Chuunibyo" is JP slang for being overly self-conscious, but "kojiraseteru" doesn’t mean "to make the condition worse by interacting with someone particular" but rather "to always in that worsening condition.” It is not just about Tifa.
He also used chuunibyo for Aerith (1/3)
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@Megasmash185
@k3ntruong_thai
@AerithCloud3
Yes, because that’s the dynamic Cloud’s mom said is the perfect type of girl for him in Japanese.
A girl that can lead and pull his stubborn ass around to a specific path.
Aerith, not tifa, is that person.
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@KenMastersUSA
@TifaTheMonk
It’s literally a play/expansion off the ultimania quote with Aerith seeing into his true self that he’s unaware of.
I really can’t see “he becomes more like Zack/less of himself around Aerith” as anything more than pure cope lmao 😂
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The contrast between the two reactions is what’s notable.
As for why Aerith adds uncertainty.
I have a thread coming on a good theory that I haven’t seen anyone talk about yet.
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I also want to note that the core theme is *life*
+ The fact that everything that made her death special in the OG, is NOT present in remake
+ the new theme of defying fate
You get a very hopeful message w/ a **celebration** of life and survival.
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This is a very realistic portrayal of death that was not common back then.
You are happily talking to a loved one about your futures together.
*boom* the next day you find out they died in a car accident.
This is the kind of feeling they were aiming for.
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I was going to screen cap more ex. But I think we all understand
The theme has constantly been pounded into us. It’s printed on the back of the disc.
Some referencing Aerith directly.
There is even a PHYSICAL representation of fate(whispers) that you literally fight against.
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However, Aerith adds uncertainty to the confession immediately after.
Which allows for the contrast between his two reactions to really shine.
Cloud has a positive reaction to hearing Aerith saying she loves him.
And a negative reaction to her adding uncertainty.
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“Yet venerated is he in her embrace”
Foreshadowing a scene to come after the lifestream sequence?
-Also interestingly, Rosa is the only one to talk about “True Love”, which occurs after this sequence in loveless.
A lot lining up, right?
Not only is Aerith the default Rosa but
-Aerith’s Rosa is the only one to talk about 真実の愛-True love
What does Tifa’s rosa talk about?
-Cloud being a hero.
The difference between the two is reflective of the narrative purpose behind each relationship.
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That being said, I think the very rational and logical conclusion is that she’s dead in the world the party is in
& alive in a new world created when Cloud deflected the sword
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As opposed to the message that runs contrary to the new themes present:
“You can’t defy fate. You’re NOT in control of your life no matter what you do. Suck it up and move on”
Makes no sense, not to mention the incredibly negative thematic messaging
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It’s also confirmed that Aerith is able to see into his true existence(the only one confirmed to do so).
So it makes sense why uncertainty from her arises.
Her feelings are mixed up from the real him she sees through to and the false persona overcasting him.
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The scene this takes place in Remake in Aerith’s section of the game.
He dreams this sequence AFTER meeting and spending the day with her while sleeping in HER house.
W/ the description, it really seals the deal.
EC seemed to want to correct any confusion too
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This also seems to be foreshadowed in loveless.
I might do a thread in the future analyzing it.
But for now.
Cloud=the prisoner
Aerith=the goddess
(Aerith’s rosa being the only one to imply herself to be the goddess. The others refer to the goddess as a separate being).
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TLDR:
Cloud’s “not interested” persona reflects a FEAR of rejection and a DESIRE to connect rather than the opposite
Aerith’s role is opening him up, despite that persona showing resistance(The “perfect” girl)
The GS & Dream date reflects this persona & Aerith’s dynamic in it
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There is absolutely no reason to doubt her here.
Even in the OG, she was cognizant of these types of feelings.
This scene isn’t comical or to be portrayed as a kid talking about things she doesn’t understand.
No, it’s a serious tone. Zack himself takes her seriously.
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Nojima’s previous writing style matches
🌎 doesn’t fully realize her love for ☁️ now due to the Zack persona covering his real self.
The realization being post-LSS.
Meant as a narrative message that Aerith’s love is for Cloud’s real self, not the false persona he’s adopted.
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Cloud has a catchphrase in Japanese
「興味ない」—“Not interested”
But it’s not simply a catchphrase. It’s part of a persona he developed out of his isolation as a kid.(Important!)
It’s also part of the “real him”unrelated to Jenova or his false Zack persona.
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I really see this date as a beautiful narrative piece especially to Cloud’s character
Him slowly opening up throughout the date—representing CA’s narritive dynamic
& finally dropping his barrier once Aerith’s expresses her interest in him.
I think it’s very true to the story
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Also, Nojima has referred to Cloud as Aerith’s Koibito(lover恋人), in otwtas.
A book in which Zack is never mentioned and Aerith only talks about wanting to see Cloud again
None of this matters much to the point I’m about to make. I thought I’d mention it regardless
I digress
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