SoccerPhotogrammetry, A Nice Gentleman & nerd
@OffsideModeling
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Using 2D photos to create a 3D model which can settle the question Was he offside?
Joined August 2015
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So here's how it works
1) You tweet me an offside call you want me to model
2) I pick a few when I have time, do them
3) You love me forever
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OK, using their frame, I have it as 3 inches offside, so not quite as much.
Probably more concerning is that their line is not parallel to the 18 and the 6 yard lines
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So that late game winner by
@fccincinnati
vs the
@PhilaUnion
does look like it was offside by about 3 inches. I did have to guess where Carranza's foot was, so there is that. Still, we can see his heel is so it's very unlikely his toe was keeping Murphy onside.
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OK, using their frame, I have it as 3 inches offside, so not quite as much.
Probably more concerning is that their line is not parallel to the 18 and the 6 yard lines
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So a bit late but better late than never, right?
That Philly/Querétaro goal in 90+11 by Donovan? Onside by about a foot. Definitely a good goal.
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Hey all, so that goal for
#ForTheCrown
(
@CharlotteFC
) vs
#WeAreTheA
(
@ATLUTD
) - I have to say I am surprised to report the ball is modeled as in-play by almost 2 inches. I really thought it was in the goal when I first saw it.
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You know that
#HellIsReal
goal everyone was SURE was offside? Yea, my model says offside by <1/4"
Is it perfect, no - did it 5 times and got onside 3 times. Can't see the foot so I have to guess. Made my best guess but I could see it a couple of inches either way.
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So remember back about a year, er, week and a half ago when Austin thought they scored on Seattle? Yea, I think they did too, by about 2 inches or so.
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So,
#LAFCvLAG
- 2nd goal, I have it as being offside by 1.5 inches.
So, really close. Talking about the difference between one pixel and the next here. If I had better source images I might be able to be more definitive.
Still, seems offside to me.
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In
#MTLvCLB
it seems like the Cucho goal in the 43' was offside by about a foot and a half.
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@HeroMemoryCard
Yeah, I redid it, I was a fool to use the frame that the broadcast stopped on.
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So
@ATLUTD
's 4th goal was tight. I had quite a bit of trouble getting things to line up (I suspect that my two angles are from slightly different points in time).
My best guess is that it was perfect positioning on Giakoumakis's part. Model shows him onside by mere inches.
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@karl_0cool
Well, never know what happens when game state changes, but I tend to agree. We needed to capitalize on the early pressure
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Important personal news, currently sitting in a class ready to become a entry-level/grassroots ref.
Wish me luck!
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And
@ATLUTD
's first goal was also extremely close. Also not a great model (each angle is missing some important context or information), but my best guess is that it was a goal by about 3 inches
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So that
#RMABAY
offside call everyone is upset that the AR put his flag up for? That couldn't possibly be offside? You're not going to believe this but...
I have both players offside by a couple of inches. Not a great amount (~6" or 15cm, ~3" or 7cm) but it's not clearly wrong.
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Important personal news, currently sitting in a class ready to become a entry-level/grassroots ref.
Wish me luck!
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Sorry for the delay, but I find the disallowed goal in Cincinnati for
@impactmontreal
to be onside by ~9 inches
Note I am using
@DLovitz11
's foot and not his shoulder for the point to evaluate. Using
@kwaston88
's shoulder for the line, though his foot is only 1" further back
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2020 MLS Schedule Analysis
Alright, I know that the schedule has been out for a while, but took me a bit to get this finished, but here are some attributes of the MLS 2020 schedule.
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#MNUFC
goal vs
#SportingKC
by Oluwaseyi? Onside by 1 inch, behind the ball. Essentially even, but definitely nothing to make onside seem more likely than offside at this point.
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#3
- Was Adeniran offside on the disallowed goal? This one was v tight, and honestly the angles shown were horribly distorted and there are no good reference points, but after spending like 30-45 minutes on it I can say it seems he was onside by inches
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Yes, Columbus was unfortunate to be called offside. Seems Pedro Santos was onside by about 4 feet.
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Alright, so my model says that
@OrlandoCitySC
was indeed onside by about 2 inches. It's super close, but probably better if the flag stays down.
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Was that a goal in
#ATXvSTL
off the line? So, I don't have great angles but from what I can figure it looks like it was a goal by about 4 inches.
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So, was that ball out of play when Japan played Spain yesterday? The goal that resulted in Germany being sent home?
I agree with VAR here, the ball was in play by about 1 inch.
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The disallowed goal for
@PhilaUnion
against
@ATLUTD
I have as being offside by 9 inches. Best model of the three, everything lining up a lot nicer here, so I feel pretty confident about this one.
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Apologies for being absent recently, but the
#TexasDerby
no goal for
@HoustonDynamo
was just the type of thing I thought I could do quickly enough.
Model says no goal by ~2 inches. Obviously v close and I don't have the best angles, but the models seem good. I agree with no goal
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So that 20k goal that everyone is talking about (being offside)? Yea, I have it offside, but only by 3". Quite close, and honestly it could be closer if I wanted to make it onside (but I am impartial, of course).
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@JohnHayesOnAir
@fccincinnati
@PhilaUnion
I'm allowed to make such statements because what I say doesn't matter and nobody pays me.
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OK, was
@detienne_10
onside in his VAR given goal vs
@ColoradoRapids
? My model says he was, by almost a foot, behind the ball. Good goal.
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So that goal by
@realsaltlake
goal vs
@SportingKC
by Arango? I have it offside by about 7 inches.
Honestly, I'm surprised it stood, it looked pretty clear to me that he was offside the first time I saw it.
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OK, so this is pretty much as close as you can get. I have it 1/8" not-a-goal. Obviously I cannot say it was or was not a goal from that type of measurement here...
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So I hope you have all seen the Rooney play, but I hate to inform everyone that Acosta was quite possibly offside. Model says 1.5' and while there is some distortion/etc, unlikely that it accounts for full 1.5' though.
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Took a bit of work, but I've done the PDX situation and the model says anywhere from 0-1.25" over the line (the 0" was over the line, just by less than 1/16th, probably 1/32nd)
These are not perfect models b/c of many issues, but signs point to "very likely over the line".
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@greatbaldwonder
@fccincinnati
@PhilaUnion
I mean, I think it is v difficult for the AR because Carranza's foot is behind Murphy's. 3 inches offside looks a lot like level.
What I'm really saying is, it is just 3 inches and if you are depending on the AR and VAR to make a call off of 3 inches then you are playing with 🔥
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Save off the line by St. Clair? Good save by 5 inches.
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Hey, guys, I may not be using the right frame here. Mistakenly took the one from the broadcast as the right frame but it might be earlier.
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Lots of ppl asking, and here's the answer:
Yes, that was a good goal. Who needs goal line tech?
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Here is the second angle and a 3rd frame to try and guess where the foot is at. These all to show that I did my best but the model is difficult.
Suffice to say, it's not nearly as offside as many people are making it out to be (if it is at all).
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So that LAFC Out-of-Play non-call.
I was with most of you thinking "that looks out" and initial models agreed (out by <1" though). Trying to get 4 angles to agree came up with inbounds by 1/4".
Went ahead and included all 4 angles so you can judge for yourself.
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OK, so honestly, I love people trying to approach these situations analytically. And, frankly, you don't want to see some of my first work *shudder*
But, um, do I need make a class on how to do this? Like, not even how I do it, just to make parallel lines in 3D projected onto 2D
@TaylorTwellman
Hastily done in about a minute using a free app from the App Store, but cmon
@MLS
@PROreferees
, it’s an easy thing to do
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How close was that
#LAGalaxy
ball to being a goal? The model says 5/8" not-a-goal. Suffice to say that it is _really_ tight.
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Hey, so in the below tweet I reference how their lines were not parallel to the 18 and 6. Turns out that they utilize software which auto-calibrates and that calibration is far from perfect. The best points to use are the outer corners.
OK, using their frame, I have it as 3 inches offside, so not quite as much.
Probably more concerning is that their line is not parallel to the 18 and the 6 yard lines
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Was Royer offside in his disallowed goal? Unfortunately my model says he was not. Mostly by the foot of the opposing player.
Used two different techniques to get the position of his torso, neither are great but they agree well enough to be confident they are behind his foot
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Adding this to the things that people call me that I'm proud of
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So I did my best with the
#DALvSKC
goal by Pepi and frankly it is v difficult with the lack of many field markings, but ended up with him being offside by a couple of feet. Not definitive, but seems like he was offside.
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So on the 2nd
#SportingKC
goal, it appears that Roger Espinosa was offside. While the model says 1.5', I can't be very sure b/c the model isn't very good, but it seems unlikely that he was onside.
#SKCvLAG
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At least nothing happened today when I was out doing my 5th and 6th games (ever) at AR (U11 and U12, so half fields).
*Checks notifications*
Oh dear... Ok, just a second guys.
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Sorry for the delay, but here it is -
@PhilaUnion
shows up in the model as 1" offside.
Super close, but seems like the call should stand, especially since it was made on the field.
Tough for the Union though,
@TimbersFC
got lucky.
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Also, thanks to all my followers, getting me to 2K followers today.
It makes me very happy that there are other people out there as interested in finding out the truth (as much as can be ascertained) as I am.
And much love to the ARs out there. You guys are truly amazing.
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So Alessandrini does appear to have been offside by almost a yard. Tough luck for
@HoustonDynamo
#LAvHOU
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Hurray, more data makes a better model.
With the addition of the new angle, I expect that Etienne was offside by almost 2".
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Still working on Besler offside, but Valdez off by about 1-2'.
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Para los hispanohablantes que puedan estar interesados:
El gol de Philadelphia Union vs Querétaro en 90+11 fue habilitado de 1 pie/40 cm.
Buen gol
(Lo siento, no hablo español, esto es de Google)
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So that Leerdam offside call you all have been asking about.
Honestly, it's a difficult one to be confident about, which may be why it wasn't reversed, but I don't see him being offside. Model shows 4-8" onside, but again, is not a very confident estimate.
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So this one shocked me.
@LAFC
's Douanga is only shown to be 1/8" offside in the lead-up to the RC on
@TimbersFC
's Crépeau.
The model is not great (only 1 angle for Bravo, so a lot of guessing there) but I thought offside by quite a bit, and a lot closer than that.
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#2
- Was Salloi offside on SKC's first goal? No. These angles were also v distorted, but it is clear even with imperfect images to work from that he was onside by more than a foot.
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Hey all, sorry for the delay, I got new phone and hadn't logged into it yet with this account. But I'm here now.
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@MASSIVEstlsc
Why you photoshopping images to make them look like you were robbed?
First image what that frame really looks like, and the other is the frame of the actual pass.
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BTW, here's what I came up with for that VAR call yesterday:
Yes, I find him to be offside by over half a foot. Not a great deal, but he was offside.
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For those wondering how far the ball was out, I have about 1 foot
#MLSCup
#CrewSC
#Timbers
CC
@TaylorTwellman
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So that clearance off the line? Obviously it gets closer to this when it comes off the bar, but when he heads it, it is almost a foot from being a goal.
#MINvFCD
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@AuthenticMe13
So being in an offside position, by itself, is not an infraction. To have an infraction a player needs to be both in an offside position and be involved in 'active play' by:
* interfering with play
* interfering with an opponent
* gaining an advantage after rebound/save
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So I'm frankly shocked that they overturned that goal, I don't know what they were thinking.. but I also don't understand how they make measurements on shoulders/etc. with only using one camera angle either.
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The
@TorontoFC
consolation goal vs
@SportingKC
at 90+7 seemed to be offside by about half a foot.
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So, was that a
@NewYorkRedBulls
goal or was it cleared before the entire ball crossed the entire line?
Model says it is the latter - basically that half of the ball cleared the entire line, but saved by about 4"
Obviously difficult to be definitive, but my best guess is no goal.
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I'm not sure what to make of this. When I went to find the still that they presented below I instead found this.
So photoshopped to make it look like it was offside? That's inappropriate. I mean, have fun with stuff - but don't pass it off as truth and make people mad.
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Model shows that
@scott_sutter
was offside by about 11"
Biggest problem is that you cannot see the 2LD's leg in the one shot that you can also see Sutter. I had to make a guess.
Still quite sure he's offside, though, as the only way he would not be is if you could see 2LD foot
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RE: USWNT Disallowed Goal 🧵
So, without a second angle (don't ask me how they can pretend to determine where shoulders are w/ only 1 angle) I can't make a great guess about where the line should be.
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@Aiden_101007
Guidance is to use the first frame with contact. So it might be the right frame. I can't tell with the tools I have but they have much better ones.
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So the
@latif_blessing
goal for
@LAFC
? Yea, I do show Blessing being offside by over a foot.
I will say that between the field and the lens distortion, I had trouble getting multiple angles to line up. Pretty clear, however, that he is offside.
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So it was close, but I agree with the notion that Weah's goal was offside.
I should say that they are much better at this stuff than I am, but I wanted to see it anyway.
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Hmmm, the hits keep coming from ATX vs SEA from last week.
I think
@JmoSmooth13
was offside on his goal in the 48'. Honestly, I don't blame VAR for not reviewing b/c, I ask you, where the hell are all those ATX legs?
But my best guess is that even with ATX leg guess, still off
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So the Brian Duke goal for
@cfmontreal
vs
@SportingKC
- I have it as being offside, but only be 3 inches or so. Closer than it first appeared, but still seems definitely offside.
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So that
@TimbersFC
equalizer? My model shows him to be ~5" offside. But honestly... I can't tell exactly where 2LD's shoulder ends and his arm starts. Much closer than I thought and, I dare say, not clear and obvious?
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@SpecialMies
I use multiple angles to try and recreate the 3D. So I don't need any single angle to be good.
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Back on 3/16, the
@ChicagoFire
goal vs
@cfmontreal
everyone seemed to agree was offside - I do have it offside, but by a smaller margin than I was anticipating. Offside by 3"
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Getting a lot more respect for the officials running at full sprint and still able to whistle loud and clear.
#HarderThanItLooks
Important personal news, currently sitting in a class ready to become a entry-level/grassroots ref.
Wish me luck!
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So that
@MNUFC
goal that was called back for offside? Yes, it appears that it was indeed offside. (Not surprising) But was a bit closer than I though. Model says 3" but maybe even 4" b/c of his heels.
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So that game winner by
@Ibra_official
? Yes, the model shows him offside, but only by about 1/2 a foot.
Pretty tight, and I can't be sure that the ball is in the exact right spot b/c the 2nd angle was missing a frame
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So the
#ChicagoFire
goal given on VAR, my model shows it to be ~2" over the line.
#CHIvSKC
#SportingKC
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Offside call in Yankee Stadium against
@ColoradoRapids
vs
@newyorkcityfc
- I have him onside by <0.5", so very tight.
That said, can you imagine trying to be an AR on a field where the grass lines are at a slight diagonal? I think it would drive me insane.
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Anyway, just wanted to bring you all up to speed in my reffing journey. Fortunately not much in chatter from the parents, and they even listened to my explanations when I could give them.
It has been rewarding - a good workout too. I recommend anyone who loves the game too try.
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First off, short rest - how many games do teams have with 3 days rest and with 3/4 days rest?
Teams which share stadiums seem to do worse off here, which makes sense.
Note: these are for the MLS schedule only, disregarding all other competitions.
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Was Zlatan offside on his disallowed goal? Unfortunately, the model says he was not offside.
Though without benefit of the 2 angles and using 3D modeling, can see why VAR not used
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Was Darwin Quintero offside in Orlando? The model says yes, but by ~1 inch. Frankly, I cannot even see 2LD well enough to feel very confident that he was or was not.. but I can say it was very, very close.
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