AFL MRO/Tribunal explainer
@AFLTribunalexpl
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Litigation lawyer with 15 years experience with a keen interest in MRO/tribunal process and procedure…final result on sanction is a “best guess” based on guides
Joined July 2022
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Media have to be more informed than this…
“It was hardly intentional”…as if you don’t know there can be a “careless” charge
“He came back on”…as if you don’t know that only goes to the “impact” grading and level of sanction, not whether the offence occurs
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How Ralph can possibly say “under the current rules that was a clear suspension” when an ex Supreme Court Judge said it wasn’t is absolutely beyond me…
…the AFL may want it to be a clear suspension, but clearly the rules aren’t drafted in a way to make that so…
Brilliant for Cripps, who across his career has made the ball his objective. But I assume we either get an AFL appeal today or Brad Scott fronting the cameras to explain the rules from now on in. Under current rules that collision was a clear suspension
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The amount of media on the “Crouch will get off b/c of Cripps” train is really frustrating…
Fans having banter is fine, but those in the media have reach and influence, and with that comes a responsibility to inform and educate, not to mislead and whip up undue hysteria…
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I’ve watched this a number of times and really can’t see where the “strike” is…not sure if I’m going blind…
…there is an initial “flick” of the arm but that doesn’t connect (?)…Heeney stops short at one stage - does Webster’s head hit his shoulder?
Jon Ralph explains why a rule change could see Brownlow fancy Isaac Heeney banned, plus why Izak Rankine is in big trouble.
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Harassing Clarkson and Rioli in a parking lot after a 10 hour conciliation, when the media know all parties are bound by strict confidentiality, is completely undignified…
…not sure who at 7 could possibly have OK’d that approach…
Cyril Rioli has come face to face with Alastair Clarkson over the Hawthorn racism saga. Chief Footy Reporter
@cleary_mitch
has exclusive details on the marathon mediation session.
@7AFL
#7NEWS
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Sorry to digress from tribunal stuff but…
On the Voice - vote however you want…that’s democracy…
I just ask that you please not decide your vote on falsehoods such as:
(1) We don’t have enough details; or
(2) It will bring the gov to a standstill with HC challenges…
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If someone knows how to start an online petition, how about we try to get
@FOXFOOTY
to include tribunal hearings in the upcoming broadcasting negotiations?
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@hasumpstuffedup
They do sometimes let play continue for a second or two to see if it’s an actual advantage though don’t they?
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I really can’t recall anyone in the media being more in tune with the MRO/tribunal system than David Zita…just lays out the facts really well…
MRO puts onus on tackler to exercise duty of care. If they don't, it's 'careless'.
If graded, it's 'high' contact & concussions tend to attract a 'severe' impact grading.
This year, rather than direct Tribunal referral, MRO can offer a base three-match sanction.
@FOXFOOTY
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Well…while we wait for the reasons one thing is for sure…Townshend QC will never have to pay for a beer on Lygon St again!
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Well - I certainly hope Wehr’s concussion test isn’t the reason for the impact to be graded “severe”…
All 3 victim players ought to have had concussion tests, and the fact 2 of them apparently didn’t is almost as big a story as the offending…
Up next on
@FOXFOOTY
to explain why Kosi got two weeks & McAdam got sent straight to the tribunal. The AFL has used every lever in the table of offences to give the players maximum penalties. In essence Wehr’s concussion test allowed the league to elevate it from medium to severe
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I’ve created this new account for the pure purpose of discussing MRO/Tribunal decisions as I’m a bit of a nuffy for it…I’m a blues supporter and want to be upfront about that but as objective as possible…
…obv can’t get every decision right, but can explain them…
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@hasumpstuffedup
Hard on the umps when players do this…which is why I think the MRO needs to be harder on fining players for it…
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Such a sub-par discussion…
Been cleared up correctly by numerous outlets last week:
Dangerous tackle + head contact = reportable offence…
The Hawks example…no dangerous tackle
The others they showed that were not sighted…no head contact…
Need to be better than this…
The dangerous tackle debate rages on. Is enough being done to change player behaviour?
📺Watch
#OnTheCouch
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@kayosports
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….2 of the most uneducated people on the MRO/tribunal system (including in this segment when Ed calls it “*just* a bump”) accusing Sheed of being uneducated about it is pure “pot calling the kettle black” stuff…
"And I hope that was a joke."
Jimmy Bartel hasn't missed Dom Sheed's take on the Jordan De Goey incident 👀
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This is a senior reporter with no idea about appropriate jurisprudence…
"The AFL has to own it – just remove the tribunals from the system."
After more tribunal drama, is it time for an overhaul to the league's match review structure?
#9FootyClassified
|
@Channel9
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Oh boy - apparently Gleeson didn’t give ANY directions to the jury on Tuesday…although the composition of the jury has changed, the guides still require the directions to be given…could absolutely be an error of law if true…
…qn is - if given, would result have changed?
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Does this start the conversation regarding a duty of care to teammates along with opposition players?
Not sure what the appetite for that is amongst the players, much less the footy public…maybe I’ll find out!
(And of course, fingers crossed for a quick recovery for Cameron)
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Great vision of the incident - thanks for sharing…yes, this footage looks more damning for Heeney…
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Hmmmm….could this be used to support the AFL’s contention that it was simply too unsafe an action? It follows their line of argument…
@FOXFOOTY
Biomechanist: Once he's airborne, he's essentially a projectile. He's like a frisbee with arms and legs.
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@skahl000
@laurakane__
@1116sen
@AFL_House
@DwaynesWorldSEN
@GerardWhateley
There’s no sanction for this action because the rules specifically permit this type of contact…
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This is truly a bizarre circumstance and I really don’t like it - essentially, the AFL commission can punish players/officials for “conduct unbecoming” at their absolute discretion…judge, jury and executioner…
Touk Miller has been suspended for one game after being charged with conduct unbecoming by the AFL.
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Pretty funny to me that the JDG case is one of the most straightforward MRO/Tribunal cases we’ve had this year, yet my timeline is filled with commentary on it…
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Ed slipping in about Hewett not “protecting himself” against JDG for a head high bump is very….on brand…
There is room for the “players should protect themselves better” argument - this incident was the furthest thing from that though…
"If they do lose on Sunday night to the Bombers, it's season over."
Matthew Lloyd says time is running out for Carlton to save their year, and names the young Blue he wants to see given a chance at AFL level.
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Thank you to all those that have come on board 🙏
If you have any incidents you want to discuss feel free to tag me!
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Sorry for not being around until now on the Berry tribunal hearing…very busy day…
Save to say the hearing went as predicted, with some twists and turns along the way…
…gut feel having read the evidence is that this gets downgraded to “careless” and a fine…
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JVR’s ban has been OVERTURNED…right result in my view…back to look at reasons soon…
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It has somehow taken 2 hours of deliberations though the tribunal is finally back - no doubt taking their time as they understand the importance of this early season “message”…
SPP has been banned for 4 MATCHES…the bar has been set for 2024…
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3 commentators all who should have the bare minimum knowledge to understand that this simply can’t be a 1 week offence given McLuggage is concussed…
The most likely outcomes are 0 weeks or 3+ weeks (tribunal)….there is also a very outside chance of 2 weeks…
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…sorry, just had to get that off my chest mainly because, as a lawyer, it does anger me seeing some of the stuff being spread about it (purely from a legal perspective)…
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Appeal has succeeded…really astonishing…well done to Townshend QC…although I didn’t think he’d be successful, he put up the best possible arguments…
Most won’t care now, but will be back to digest the reasons…
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Wow - McKay has been successful! Add that to a list of decisions I didn’t see coming…will be very interesting to dissect the reasons…
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For those that care, I still believe Maynard should get off…I believe it will be found to be a “bump”, but one affected through a reas contest at the ball…
BUT…I completely support the decision to send him to the tribunal…these line ball decisions require a full hearing
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@pauljames1968
…the AFL argued for suspensions for both Cripps and Maynard, and when those arguments were unsuccessful they amended the guides to capture (or attempt to capture) future incidents of that type…
…it was a tribunal (and appeal board) independent of the AFL that let those 2 off
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@CFC_Chas
My view is that Coleman pushed Sicily prior to the tackle, causing him (and the tackle) to change trajectory…from there Brockman (?) dives accross keeping McLuggage upright momentarily and contributes to the fall backwards…similar to the Cerra case (which was not guilty)
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Is it video trickery here or am I not seeing what Ralph is? He says Brayshaw veered into Maynard’s path and Maynard jumped straight up…I see Maynard jumping slightly right and Brayshaw more or less holding his line (though does veer a little)?
.
@RalphyHeraldSun
provides the latest details on Brayden Maynard's tribunal case.
📺Watch
#OnTheCouch
on Ch. 504 or stream via
@kayosports
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The Maynard case has commenced - Maynard pleading not guilty and will rely on expert evidence…you can follow along the commentary from David Zita so I won’t repeat his transcript (only if something interesting comes up)…my main role will be dissecting the reasons!
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Not MRO related (sorry) but the AFL know they can act to stamp this out…there are avenues to go to the Federal Court to compel social media companies to release the details of people with anonymous accounts…if they don’t start taking a proper stand, the words are empty…
Crows coach Matthew Nicks responds to Izak Rankine being racially abused on social media.
📺Watch
#AFL360
on Ch. 504 or stream via
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:
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For clarity, the two questions I anticipate Carlton putting to the appeal board tomorrow night (as it’s the only aspects that were found against Cripps):
-What is a “bump” and did the tribunal err in finding Cripps “bumped”?
-Did the Tribunal misapply the term “reasonable way”?
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So - my thinking for tonight is as follows (happy to expand if people want):
-Mansell - guilty and 3-4 weeks
-Sicily - not guilty…if he is guilty though again 3-4 weeks
-Butler - a little more on the fence with this one, though think not-guilty
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I’m a Carlton supporter - so anyone alleging bias that’s completely fair enough…
But if anyone cares about my view, I think it’s similar to Butler’s tackle which was thrown out…
Is Jordan Boyd in trouble for this tackle? 🤔
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It’s been 30 minutes and 40 minutes respectively since the last updates from Fox or AFL…not exactly sure what’s happening, but pretty sure we’re missing a fair bit…
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For all the negative talk around dangerous tackles, you only need to look at this one to understand the crackdown is having an effect…
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A few tags on this one from the great Ump account…can Rohan be suspended for the hit on Cameron?
The answer is technically yes, but in practice almost certainly not…
Atm, a duty is owed by every player to every other player…BUT, never before has “friendly fire” been charged
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Interesting development…
Reasons did not really deal with the “elephant in the room” being Webster’s lowered body height…could that be the error of law?
The
@sydneyswans
are heading to the Appeals board to try and get Isaac Heeney’s one-match ban downgraded.
The fight for Brownlow Medal eligibility (and to play v North Melbourne this week) lives on
@7NewsMelbourne
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And there we have it - AFL are seeking at 8 WEEK ban…
I’m pretty surprised at that…
Stewart got 4 weeks for a similar hit 2 years ago…100% “community standards” have changed but this is double what that penalty was…anyway…we will find out what the “worst” will cop in 2024
Webster’s case is about to begin…the most interesting aspect will of course be in the first 5 minutes - what does the AFL ask for?
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I promised myself I would only use this account for MRO/tribunal discussion, but…
Anyone placing blame on Ah Chee for this incident, and more importantly racially vilifying him, is a disgraceful human being…
Trust this was isolated to 1, but even 1 is 1 too many…be better
As a Club, we strongly condemn the racial comments made towards one of our players on social media. It’s disgusting behaviour and there is no place for racism in sport, or in society full stop.
We must, and we will, continue to call it out.
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I really respect the emotion behind this and understand it can’t be an easy topic for Hamish…but hopefully everyone can see past the emotion and understand this is a very hyperbolic view…
Hamish Brayshaw's open letter to the
@AFL
.
You can read the full transcript here:
#afl
#backchat
#afltribunal
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3 charges from Bris v Rich game - all fines:
-Vlastuin for tripping McCarthy (Careless/Low/Body)
-Hipwood dang tackle on Rioli (Careless/Low/High)
-Robinson high bump on Sonsie (Careless/Low/High)
Will post videos when I find them (or tag me if you’ve found them)
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Commentary on the Cripps decision has ranged from:
“Suspending him will ruin the fabric of our game”
to
“Cripps wanted to iron out Ah Chee and intentionally knocked his head off…if he isn’t suspended the game won’t last”
As with most things, the truth lies in the middle…
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FYI - unfortunately been called for “daddy duty” tonight as my little one isn’t feeling well…awful timing as I do love the appeals!
Don’t think I’ll be able to bring much during the hearing, but will give full thoughts on the decision later tonight!
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Barrett really needs to consult an AFL legal counsel to fully understand what he’s talking about rather than deliver this garbage (I’m sorry, it’s really frustrating in it’s ignorance)
"Come out tomorrow and say no, that is finished."
Damian Barrett calls for four major changes to the match review system, after another series of controversies this week.
#9FootyClassified
| Live on 9Now 🖥️
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@ohnomovingon
😂…
I remember they asked an AFL ump once what the best sledge he ever got was…
Said they were cracking down on dissent in the mid 2010s and Barry Hall asked “can you give me 50 for what I’m thinking”…ump said “no, Barry”…Baz says “right then I think you’re a di*khead”
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There’s a reason the MRO sits seperate to the AFL…there’s a reason the independent tribunal/appeal board exists…it’s because it creates an internal separation of powers according an appropriate level of procedural fairness so that players don’t seek intervention from the Courts
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@hasumpstuffedup
@brisbanelions
Yep - read that before! Can only see them trying to downgrade the impact from “medium” to “low” which is difficult at the best of times, much less when you have facial bruising…
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I really don’t understand why this quote is angering so many…to me, it is restating a pretty uncomplicated principle that is part of the modern game…
The more complicated qn is “would a reas player consider Maynard’s action sufficiently risked Brayshaw’s safety in that moment?
@FOXFOOTY
Woods (AFL) says players should ask: Is the thing I'm about to do risking the safety of that other player? If the answer is yes, then you've got to be quick and think about a way to do it that's not going to unreasonably risk the safety of the other player.
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McAdam, and Adel, have every right to feel aggrieved by the different grading bw himself and Pickett…
I would be throwing everything at tonight including:
(1) challenging whether there was “forceful” contact to the head
(2) calling on the AFL to release GPS data from Pickett
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Jack Martin will be interesting for the MRO
If they grade it intentional/low/high, there’s every chance Martin wins (down to a fine) by arguing it was “careless”…
If it’s graded Careless/Med/High, there’s every chance the 1 week sticks as downgrading “impact” is v difficult..
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Hi all - welcome back!
There have been quite a few amendments to the guides this year (dangerous tackles, head high hits and striking) though I’ll wait until the guides are available before commenting further…
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Yes - this will be charged as “striking”…seemingly a brain fade I would’ve thought and likely to attract only a “careless” grading…from there contact is “high” and the only question is “impact”…I have it at “medium” and 1 week…”high” souls be the alternative at 2 weeks
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Really don’t know what I’m missing here…
Any issues for Jack Silvagni after this brain fade?
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#AFLCrowsBlues
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Couple media people are commenting that the long deliberation is a good sign for Cripps…wouldn’t read too much into that…
Kellam QC is an ex Sup Court judge…will be diligent no matter which way they go…
Though it shows they didn’t make their mind up before the hearing!
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Breaking:
Pickett = 2 games: Careless/high/high
Franklin = 1 game: Careless/medium/high
I suspected as much for these two, and think they were the correct decisions under the guides..
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Just a quick shout out to some great fan accounts that provide such great content to their respective supporter bases…I know their are more but the three I’ve noticed so far are
@CarltonFCBlues
@CharlieDons
and
@giantroo
…showcasing the best of what Twitter can provide…
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Sorry…a bit off topic for me but I found the pile on on Rachele to be really poor…
…he made an error, but who amongst us can say we can’t understand it? Hodge is thought to be one of the most courageous modern players and admitted to doing the same on a number of occasions…
Fair play to Crows young star Josh Rachele - didn't shy away from owning those marking errors against the Bombers.
Admits he wasn't "brave enough" going back with the flight and vows to learn and improve.
That exclusive chat coming up tonight
@9NewsAdel
@FootyonNine
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Pains me to say as a blues fan but yes - likely to be cited for this one…1 week would seem likely for unreasonable or unnecessary contact to the eye region…
Fair eye gouge on Greene by Weitering.. no mention on the broadcast. Wonder if that’ll get looked at 🤔
#AFLBluesGiants
#AFL
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Just my 2 cents, though if the AFL ever do bring in a send off rule I wouldn’t want to see this incident as the type that could attract it…
"He should have been sent off."
Leigh Matthews believes the Peter Wright incident is another example of why the league should have a send off rule.
#9FootyFurnace
| Nine & 9Now 🖥️
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I get why people want it to work this way, honestly…
But you can’t have a system that punishes a player just b/c a concussion occurs…would be completely unjust…need to assess each incident on its merits under the duty of care
Where the line is drawn is the million dollar qn
@hasumpstuffedup
@AFLTribunalexpl
Cripps got off scotfree for something the other player was taken off the next two weeks for because of a concussion. Cripps should get at least a week or two off in compensation, because it could encourage young players of pulling things like this off without risk of punishment.
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Well…this is one I haven’t seen before…
McLuggage clearly trying to do the right thing…to his detriment in the end…
Should the umpire have blown the whistle sooner for this tackle by McCluggage.
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#AFLSaintsLions
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This will be an interesting one though I think he may escape…it appears Reid plants his foot and the saints player falls over his leg…I believe the Cerra case was similar last year and he escaped sanction…
Could this sling-tackle land Harley Reid in some trouble with the MRO? 😬
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#AFLEaglesSaints
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Again…the winner tonight for most comprehensive coverage is
@MitchKeat
…think the others have fallen asleep…
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Can’t find the George Hewett footage now though at first (live) look certainly looked like it will earn him a week on the sidelines…seemed Intentional/low/high…
Will be interesting to see if in 2024 they increase strikes to the head to medium impact (2 weeks)…we’ll find out!
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Wow!
So Junior Rioli has been suspended for 2 matches with impact being downgraded to “high”…
We have a benchmark now as to the type of contact that may result in a concussion but still not be “severe” impact
We also have the reverse benchmark with McAdam’s case…
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Alright - most people are saying the head hit Heeney’s knee on the way down…
…sorry, that can’t be a strike/knee for mine - Webster falls into the knee…
Could be rough conduct if you prove Heeney pulling him into his knee - I just don’t see it though…
I’ve watched this a number of times and really can’t see where the “strike” is…not sure if I’m going blind…
…there is an initial “flick” of the arm but that doesn’t connect (?)…Heeney stops short at one stage - does Webster’s head hit his shoulder?
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Thanks for those that tagged me - this is a really poor look and he will have to go…
The min following SPP last week would be 4…the question is whether it is more given their are factors (leaving the ground/lateness etc) which arguably make him more culpable…5 weeks for mine
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Wow - Rankine’s ban has been upheld…
…that surprises me…
…what surprises me more is that Adel didn’t appear to argue the case anywhere near what I expected…
…anyway…wait for the reasons…
This should be a relatively quick downgrade to careless and 3 weeks I would’ve thought…
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@TonyShaw22
Don’t spread this stuff Tony…Rioli decision was by the same chairman under the same guides and the two incidents are distinguishable enough that they aren’t inconsistent…
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Understand the sentiment but what everyone has to understand is we are suspending someone from employment…
If this was in the “real world” it would involve usually weeks to get from an incident to a finding…3 hours (per case) is nothing in context…
"It makes it look like a farce."
Veteran AFL journo Mike Sheahan is absolutely bewildered by the AFL Tribunal running for 6 hours this week.
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Tribunal went out around 5 minutes ago for Merrett…
If you believe in my “30 minute rule” and you’re an Ess supporter you’re probably hoping the Panel stays out for another 25 minutes at least…
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This (to me) confirms no head contact…under the current guides it was correctly not charged (though Oliver still very lucky)
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Barrett showing again he is own of touch with the MRO system, which is really poor…
First says it will be cited, though when asked to articulate why simply says “it’s high”
More bizarrely, he predicts “1 week”…it can’t be 1…it’s either 0 or 3 (with an outside chance of 2)
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Ed and Barrett are two of the worst MRO/tribunal commentators in mainstream media…
Someone really needs to run a training course for them…
Ed suggesting 4 weeks would’ve led to an appeal, when Coll Counsel implicitly said it would’ve been accepted…
"Just say on the Saturday night, this is three weeks, and that's it."
With the the Jordan De Goey case taking three days to reach a conclusion, is the AFL's match review system too slow?
#9FootyClassified
|
@Channel9
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In this one Butters has a much better chance at proving he was reasonably contesting the ball in my view…main reason is he reaches the ball at the same time as his opponent and has his arms outstretched for the ball, which is one of the key signs that he was contesting the ball
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I think the MRO will have a decent look at this as a general “rough conduct” charge given the head hit the ground…unusual circumstances but play had stopped, could argue McGovern not expecting it and therefore hit his head…
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So - charge was thrown out completely…will have full reasons soon though seems the tribunal found there was sig pressure to his neck, that the left arm was inhibited (by Oliver’s knee) and Berry couldn’t do much else…so not “unreasonable” or “unnecessary”
As I said Lions fans - you were hoping for a short deliberation and that’s what you’ve got…32 minutes it seems…
Just waiting to hear whether it was downgraded to “careless” or thrown out completely…
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….Barrett continues his line about the AFL being judge, jury and executioner, not having the most basic research skills to understand that would lead to numerous court challenges…
…very frustrating…
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Yes - as predicted Townshend QC arguing “error of law” with respect to “in the bumping of an opponent”…says can’t contest the ball and be in the act of bumping…was hoping this would be where tonight goes
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This was given 1 week only a month ago…I see little difference between this tackle and the tackle of Cotchin’s
Unfortunately, without any explanation from the MRO, we are none the wiser…but I certainly see why fans are frustrated with this…
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Yes - Darcy is set for a holiday…not contesting the ball as he shapes to bump and does get the head in my view…will be interesting only to see if they judge it medium or high impact - meaning 1-2 weeks…
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Amazing that none of the panel can quite articulate how the MRO could’ve given 1 week here under the current guides…that’s because he couldn’t…
…if you have a problem with this suspension, the guides need to be changed, and you should probably state the alternative…
"I think it's harsh ... three is an over-reaction."
The panel debates Jack Higgins' three-game suspension for his tackle on Aliir Aliir.
#9AFLSFS
| Nine & 9Now 🖥️
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This isn’t a bad post…too late for the AFL though (couldn’t be used anyway as it’s from a previous year)
@AFL
@MichaelWhiting
Similar incident for all those asking what he could of done. Arms went out to stop momentum, downfield free kick. Player wasn’t knocked out
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I’m sorry, this to me is misdirection…
All 3 could tell their story in the media if they wanted to…they’ve wisely been advised not to…
…they also would have had opportunity to tell their side at conciliation and before the AFL…if they didn’t it was their choice…
"What's perplexing for Fages, myself, and Jase is we've got to almost over 600 days later and we still haven't had the opportunity ... to actually tell our story."
Alastair Clarkson opens up on the ongoing racism inquiry.
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May have been a high free kick to Murphy, and hope he’s ok, but it won’t be a suspension…
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